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Leelas & Others => Hearts Out => Topic started by: ALDU_old on March 27, 2007, 03:36:17 AM

Title: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: ALDU_old on March 27, 2007, 03:36:17 AM
Jai Sai Master !!

Generally, you look at people from any walk of life & you will find two sets of people.

1) People who seem to have goal(s)
2) People who do not seem to have goal(s)

And generally again, people with goal(s) seem to be moving forward with conviction & intent with no confusion. And people with no goal(s) seem to be confused, less intent and have no conviction. And people with no goal(s) seem to be in majority.

And if one were to ask oneself which group one prefers to be identified with the answer will be obvious. And the fact of the matter is also obvious that one does not belong to the group which he aspires to be part of.

This brings us to the follwoing questions.

1) What makes an individual either have a goal or not have a goal?
2) Does an individual have a goal by design or does it have to be by default?
3) If one can have a goal by design then how does one do it?

Jai Sai Master !!

Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: ALDU_old on April 03, 2007, 01:27:13 AM
Jai Sai Master !!

To begin with I asked my self "Do I have a goal for my life?" and thought better of it and rephrased my question - "Did I have a goal in my life?".

I did that because I reasoned that goal(s) can be grouped under
a)The Goal(s) of Life
b)Long term goal(s)
c)Short term goal(s)

And it would be comfortable and convenient for me to try and analyze and address the "Short term goal(s)" before I contemplate to dwell on "The Goal of Life".

Before I proceed, I must define 'Goal'.

I define it thus- A goal or objective is the reason behind your actions. If it is not the reason for your actions then it is not your goal, however strongly you wish it is !!

Jai Sai Master !!

Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: ALDU_old on April 03, 2007, 01:27:39 AM
Jai Sai Master !!

Since every action has a reason (goal) we can probably generalize and say all of our actions are driven by our goal(s) - these goals can be several in number and diversified in nature.

If you start questioning your actions then you will reach the reason which drove that action. And you will end up with a list of goal(s).

Well, hold on !

Does it mean that my initial classification of people into ones that have goal(s) and the ones who do not seem to have goal(s), nullfied ??!!

Does it mean that all of us have goals but the nature of our goals define the nature of our actions??

Jai Sai Master !!

I am typing it out as my thoughts evolve, I hope it is not inconvenient.

Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: SrinivasM_old on April 03, 2007, 01:27:53 AM
ALDU
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jai Sai Master !!

Does it mean that no action is possible without a goal - reason.

Is it KAARYA - KAARANA concept?

Jai Sai Master !!

ALDU
-------------------------------------------------------------------------


Jai Sai Master.

Yes, ALDU garu. KAARYA-KAARANA has exceptions. For those group of people who live as dead (Jeevacchavams). One may argue, still he has very short goals like relinquish materialistc things. So, there existance may be True or not, Leave them a side. Rest of us, go into the following classification.

Category 1.
The short goals in the above messages are driven for Bodily/Materialistic things. All of them are for personal satisfaction. In Master's words, 'One earns to buy an automatic toilet cleaner for his Grandson'.
All are too PERSONAL GOALS.

Category 2.
If one realizes/has interest in broader goal, in the sense, wants to contribute to the whole world, GROW ALONG WITH concept. We have to set a goal as small as monitory contribution,etc.etc. and upto getting Liberated(Be one with all). Then the game starts. How much we are oriented towards this matters the Category 1.

MOST of us set/act like : I definately need most of Category 1, then I will see How much I can in Category 2. Or we think Cat.1 then ONLY I can contribute to Cat.2; There is no other way I can.


Still, dont have a Do or Die GOAL.
I know, we all like to be in Category 2.
But we should not set an unreacheable target in Cat.2.
Just as we will not set something like, be Bill gates, in Cat 1.
Athyaasaki Pokoodadu. Arhathalekundaa Sanyasam teeskunnatlu.

IT ALSO DOES NOT Mean one should leave Materialism as Dwarakanath clearly said in the other post. It boils down to, Play the Game with No concerns. Do all set on the God.

To REALISE GOD IN EVERYTHING is the goal to set. Ok,
BUT Its going to be a LONG TERM GOAL as long as many lives.
MY GOAL IS TO MAKE IT AS SHORT AS Possible.
Is it valid.

Dwarakagaru says,
Pujya Master said,
'DONT WORRY ABOUT MUKTHI. I CAN GIVE IT JUST BY TOUCHING YOUR BACK. DO SAI SEVA'.
'Mukthi gurunchi alochinchakoi. Nee veepu meeda nokkithey mukthi vastundoi. Baba seva cheskuko'

WHAT SHOULD WE SET?

Jai Sai Master.



Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: SrinivasM_old on April 03, 2007, 01:28:09 AM
Jai Sai Master.

The Questions and my views,

1.Why should one has a goal?

We are generally brought up in the fold of following others if not observing others. Finally we develop our LIKINGS which are hand picked by us from the pool of previous or on going actions of the people.
Whether it is Materialistic or Spiritual. (J.Krishna Murthy says, we are put in a cage of acquired ideology from elders or ancesters. We have to think completely out of it).

To get those things, We set them as GOALS. At the level of GOOD and BAD are same and nothing before god, they are same. A step below, Spiritual goals will lead to prosperity and do Good. Only following other actions leads to sorrow.

Who knows Vedas and all the tough stuff.
I think, Just Set Goals, Do something, Great people (of our belief) asked to do. 

2. By default:
Actions are not by default. To be good is what We constantly need to do.
Master says in a speech: Why we should do good, when entire animal kingdom is trying the other way(freely killing for food). It is not the correct answer to say, 'We should be good because we are humans'. Because we are not doing like that. I think, Goal is also same, it does n't come by default.


Jai Sai Master.

Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: ALDU_old on April 03, 2007, 01:28:23 AM
Jai Sai Master !!

Thank you Srinivas garu for the inputs.

Just to sum up (as I perceive):

1) GOAL can be defined as the reason behind an action. And so, no action can be without a goal.

2) And therefore, GOAL is synonymous to KAARANA in the KAARYA-KAARANA concept.

Are you with me on these two aspects.

Jai Sai Master !!

Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: ALDU_old on April 03, 2007, 01:28:35 AM
Jai Sai Master !!

In other words - GOAL is the reason behind one's actions.

Jai Sai Master !!
Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: Dwarakanath on April 03, 2007, 01:28:56 AM
Jai Sai Master!!

This is a wonderful thread!

Here is my initial thoughts on this..

As you said, there are long term goals, which usually drive the short term goals which drive actions.. The fact that majority doesnt have a long term goal for "Life" is due to the fact that one doesnt know what life is. One lives life without thinking about life itself, that is, one thinks about what kind of life he wants but not about what kind of life he has.

If one reasons well, one should end up with a distinct desire to have a good goal! Then the search should begin as to what goal one should have.. Once that is known, then one would look around for options which would make him closer to the goal by the minute..

This is an ideal start to spirituality. If one really understands one's goal in life, and its value, then there should be no problem in reaching it. As Master points out in the book "Edi Nijam?", the first step is to identify the goal and to understand its value. That alone gives the required motivation.

Now, to understand one's goal, the first question is, what do we want and why do we want it. Once we start delving deeply into this question, we all, usually end up at the conclusion that what we want is happyness and joy and love. If one doesnt end up with this answer, then one can be considered a lunatic, if not a seriously perverted soul.

This craving for happiness and joy and love is what drives humanity. From this craving arise all the different aspects of culture and civics, from which every thing else, like social systems, governments, religions, technology and so on arise.

Here is the catch. If every one wants Happiness, can they define it? Can I define the happiness that I want? The answer is yes and no. Yes because we have tasted it.. and No because we are not "Currently" tasting it! (If we are currently tasting it, then there wont be any craving for it!)

But lets not jump into theories.. lets analize what we want. I, if I start thinking, want happiness, sustainance and respect from people around me. I want security(in terms of lasting sustainance and happiness) in life along with happiness.

Isnt this what majority wants?? If so, what are the means to achieve it?

Jai Sai Master!
Once again, an awsome thread! Thanks!


Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: Dwarakanath on April 03, 2007, 01:29:06 AM
Jai Sai Master!

As my 500th post, I thought of reviving this old thread again, since I love the discussion in this.

Lets continue from where its finished ...



lets analize what we want. I, if I start thinking, want happiness, sustainance and respect from people around me. I want security(in terms of lasting sustainance and happiness) in life along with happiness.

Isnt this what majority wants?? If so, what are the means to achieve it?

Jai Sai Master!


Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: ananthbabladi_old on April 03, 2007, 01:29:20 AM
Jai Sai Master!

Great Thread indeed!! Learnt a lot about goals. I would like to add a small point to this. Both the goals and the happiness which we get are closely bound (and tightly bound too) by Master's words "Unna daanitho asantrupti....leni denikosamo tapana". Is it true if I say that in English? "Dissatisfaction with what we have .... and .....crazy obssession with what we want".

My point is only materialistically speaking. Having said that, we all will come to a point, if not in this janma, atleast in the next thousands, where, we will search for a deeper meaning of life, deeper and richer goal of life, like Srinivas garu has put in beautiful terms!!

So, goals are set under 2 circumstances. 1) like it is already discussed, category 1, useful only to us, and the happiness of achievement of that goal is temporary, and 2) like category 2...we ask deeper questions, and then set goals accordingly, we try (unconsciously) to act in tandem with nature, working for everybody instead of ourselves.

So, the above Master's words, if expanded a little (Ref: Leelamrutam) we will reach a point, where, we will ask, "this is not IT!!" "This is not the goal of life". That's the real start of our journey.

But for most of us, the biggest question is "WHEN?"

Jai Sai Master!!

Ananth

PS: Read a good line from one of the philosophical books which starts with.." THE WORLD REJOICES WHEN YOU COME INTO THIS WORLD CRYING...DO THINGS IN SUCH A WAY THAT THE WORLD CRIES..WHEN YOU LEAVE THIS WORLD SMILING".................The author specifies it as "A Sanscrit Saying"



Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: Dwarakanath on April 03, 2007, 01:29:32 AM
Jai Sai Master!


"Goal" is what gives us a direction and a motivation. The nature of "life" is a "Goal Oriented Being".. That is, all life exists only based on goals. Evolution is the Goal of the whole cycle of Life. Singlecelled life developing into humans is driven in a particular direction.. If we analyze, we can find "which way" or "where to" it is developing.

Goal is also something that gives us direction in every day actions. We want to Go Some where. That makes us stand up and walk and take a bus and so on.

Similarly, a Goal in life is what gives us purpose to live. Most of us have very erratic or no life goal at all. We dont have a goal in life.. Thats why, many of us dont have the "Purpose" in life.

Right? That is the Goal I am trying to discuss.. What is the purpose of our life?

Why?

How to reach it?

Jai Sai Master!


Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: WhoAmI_old on April 03, 2007, 01:29:47 AM
Bodily ego ?I? always feels ?I did? & ?I am doing?.......but it is not the truth??.

Whatever this body has to do and whatever the experiences it has to pass through are already decided when it came into existence?..

The bodily action, be it good or bad....or whatever it may be......the reason is EESWARA.....

But this bodily ego ?I? feels ?I did? & ?I am doing? (Because of ?MAYA (or) Ignorance?)

...
Goal for any bodily ego should be

?just transcend this Maya and realize the true self???it may not be as easy as saying this in 5 English words??

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
in this process, initially, the goal should be 'to become mere witness to the bodily actions'

leave aside the KARTHRUTHVA BHAVA (?I did? & ?I am doing?) & become mere witness to the bodily actions?..

...

One soul with bodily consciousness asked
?With out saying ?I?, the worldly actions cannot be done??

Another soul 'Bhagavan' which is self realised and appears to have bodily consciousness replied

Perform the worldly actions by saying ?I? ?I did? ?I am doing?
But have that inner feeling that
?you are not doing anything?
"you means the atman"

...


Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: sasiarun_old on April 03, 2007, 01:30:02 AM
Dwarakanathgaru

The purpose of life according to all the saints is to attain the Ultimate Truth, become one with the Supreme Being.

For that the path to follow is that of righteousness or Dharma.

Being righteous I have found personally gives an immense sense of satisfaction which no material possession can ever give.

Jai Sai Master!


Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: asterias_old on April 03, 2007, 01:30:18 AM
Jai Sai Master !

Dear Babugaru here are my views on the above topic.

Almost all our actions are based on the want of happiness. Happiness is what drives us to do things. However we may or may not get happiness from the things that we do. When i refer to happiness it includes peace and satisfaction too.

In short these are the reasons for any of our actions or the goals that we set. Hardly anyone would keep a goal that does not lead to such end results. However we err [ i.e the end result is not always happiness ] because we don't understand things completely. Our day to day lives are the very proof that we are not just content with what we have or what we get. In Master's words "We want certain things that we think will give us happiness, however by the time we get it we dont want it for it is not what we thought it is". The reason for such a situation is that we are not what we think ourselves to be ( Master's words ).

Day after day we give prominence to what others are doing materialistically, hoping that we get the same. Deep in our hearts we are not sure whether that will give us happiness or not. But we still like the sheep follow, sheep jump philosophy. The phrase " The higher they are , the harder they fall", is very apt for the aspirer of the materialistic things.

On some amount of thought we can appreciate [ may not experience it ] that happiness cant be in the objects that we aspire for.

Very lamely speaking, for me the purpose of life is to attain ever lasting happiness [ bliss ]. Fortunately or unfortunately materialism does not promise the happiness that we are seeking, as shown by the above discussion.

Simply speaking, no friction internally and externally is the only way to acheive happiness.

Jai Sai Master!


Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: Asterias on March 11, 2009, 07:51:30 PM
Jai Sai Master !

This topic is ancient ! .. Yet always current!

Without having done much introspection or investigation, just by reading Mastergaru's books, most of us have blindly come to a conclusion that all that we want in life is peace and happiness.

I say this because, its easy to say it than to think it out. IMO, even Mastergaru says to the same effect, that most of us dont realize that what we are doing is in essence to get peace and happiness (satisfaction). This I think is one of the reasons that we are not able to put the value of this teaching into our daily materialistic lives.

Also, lets say that we have understood a certain level that position, power, job, money will not give us the kind of happiness as is promised by spirituality, then what next ?

Should we jump into spirituality (and what do we mean by that - Spirituality has been defined earlier in this forum as harmonious living etc etc - but how does it start ? ) with whatever weak understanding we have of it? Most of the times we think clearly, are the times of great distress, when we dont get what we want, or we are worried.

During these times, we make resolves like, "I am not going to repeat this", "I am going to do this from now on" etc etc. Most of the times,these turn out like our new year resolutions - which keep getting renewed on Jan 1st, Ugadi, Mastergaru's bday etc etc !!

Atleast Sai bandhus have got a good medium. We have books written by Mastergaru. So we read them. We re read them. And then what ? We never bother to practice them. The problem is that atleast some of us dont know that we have to put it into practice  (Parayana is confined to only 1-2 hours and not supposed to be practiced!!) or we usually want to practice is far above our level, which again means that we dont know our own level. Finally even spirituality becomes materialism. Books turn into dull routine, so we look for answers - we find answers only to be caught in questions.

Its also very easy to say that we have improved by reading Mastergaru's books or by His sannidhi. But have we really ?? I think we have somehow tried to suppress our bad qualities by some other means, but have by no means really overcome them.


What Mastergaru has written in His books is of supreme value. He talks about spirituality very very holistically. There is no other way one can really put it. In His books we find the synthesis, we find harmony, we find wisdom ( not us - but those who really READ it - because thats what they say!). He has written life histories of Mahatmas, He has told us how to conduct our daily life, how to do pooja, how to meditate, how to prove the existence of god, how to realize god and finally how to be humble despite being the GREATEST. But do our actions or our words reflect what Mastergaru says???

And at the end of it we talk about goal, life and what not !

This is the irony I feel most of us would have realized in our own daily lives. The dichotomy - the clear separation between what we read during Parayana and what we do outside it.

So what should we people do? What should we immediately do so as to set the picture right (at least by the end of certain duration of time) ?

Jai Sai Master !
Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: Ananth on March 13, 2009, 07:59:40 AM
Jai Sai Master, Babu garu..
Jai Sai Master, SaiBandhus..

Thinking...............................

And LOST.............................

For Answers........................... :(

Jai Sai Master!
Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: Saiuttampallavi on March 17, 2009, 01:05:06 AM
Jai Sai Master.

Dear Asterias garu,

It is like a vacation time after exams. We are trying to spend our time thinking more about how best we can utilize this time. During this time we happened to read

What is Duty? On the left side under Karma-Yoga. Please click on 'What is Duty?'
http://www.ramakrishnavivekananda.info/vivekananda/volume_1/vol_1_frame.htm

Swamy's words are really enlightening.

When you are doing any work, do not think of anything beyond. Do it as worship, as the highest worship, and devote your whole life to it for the time being.

Master garu has explained about the devotion part of our work in Pravachanamulu. We are just trying to analyze what we are doing, where we can improve the devotion/nishta and how we can make difference to our present state.

Your question

Quote
So what should we people do? What should we immediately do so as to set the picture right (at least by the end of certain duration of time) ?

is like 'ok friends, vacation is over. Get back to school'. Now dont say we have become lazy with holidays. :)

How are all others doing? Friendly hello to all. Spring is coming and we also may have to refresh ourselves. This is the time to come out of our dormant nests hiding deep inside our lazy mind sets. Let's get our heads out of blankets of ignorance and try to glance at the bright side of our lives in the form of Master gari teachings.

Let's have fruitful discussions this season.

May SaiMaster garu guide us all with Their blessings!

Jai Sai Master.

Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: Ananth on March 17, 2009, 02:14:46 AM
Jai Sai Master, Babu garu..
Jai Sai Master, Sai Bandhus..

Jai Sai Master, Uttam garu & Asterias garu..

My problem is actually, exactly as described by you. Every once in a while, I ask the right questions, and then I get into the same habit of forgetting Sri SaiMaster. And by "Forgetting" I mean to say, I do not fully utilize the teachings given by HIM. It's only a half measure.

I Am sure certain ways and certain ideas gives certain people the best chance to put Master's teachings into practice. What worked for me was, I take a very very small and minor thing that I want out of my life, and I give myself one year to completely remove it. If it is a good thing also, I give myself one year to positively develop it forever.

Many philosophers and self-help teachers found the idea of 21 day habit very effective. It takes a minimum of 21 days to get into a new good habit and keep at it forever. Most of the times, we tend to givce it up before 21 days.

For example, being here in Canada, it was almost becoming next to impossible to get Sai Bhaktas to do satsangam. We tried many ways to give introduction to Sai Master, but we were total failures. We got frustrated. We developed that frustration by changing it into our laziness. I guess, by our pure good luck and the blessings of Master garu, we started doing it again with the right attitude. This happened 2 years back. We thought, no matter what, whether someone comes to the satsangam or not, it is our duty to tell them. If they don't, then forget it and let's do it ourselves with being just one family. So, we put a target of 1 year to continuously do the satsangam every thursday without missing at any cost. By Master's blessings, that target was met successfully and now, it is like we miss something if we even think of missing it.

In the same way, I believe, that we can keep a target, a realistic target of removing our bad habits and also to implement Master's teachings effectively and continuously.

Now, Asterias garu, the reason for my short answer previously was, I did think about what you wrote, but sincerely and frankly felt, what can I write? I know I am not following Master's teachings 100%, but I also know that I am trying to do that. So far, it's only like a drop in the ocean and a long way to go. I keep falling down and getting up, but I feel confident that SaiMaster is always with us. That's why your post, particularly the words that you wrote below, made me more helpless.

Quote
Atleast Sai bandhus have got a good medium. We have books written by Mastergaru. So we read them. We re read them. And then what ? We never bother to practice them. The problem is that atleast some of us dont know that we have to put it into practice  (Parayana is confined to only 1-2 hours and not supposed to be practiced!!) or we usually want to practice is far above our level, which again means that we dont know our own level. Finally even spirituality becomes materialism. Books turn into dull routine, so we look for answers - we find answers only to be caught in questions.

Its also very easy to say that we have improved by reading Mastergaru's books or by His sannidhi. But have we really ?? I think we have somehow tried to suppress our bad qualities by some other means, but have by no means really overcome them.


What Mastergaru has written in His books is of supreme value. He talks about spirituality very very holistically. There is no other way one can really put it. In His books we find the synthesis, we find harmony, we find wisdom ( not us - but those who really READ it - because thats what they say!). He has written life histories of Mahatmas, He has told us how to conduct our daily life, how to do pooja, how to meditate, how to prove the existence of god, how to realize god and finally how to be humble despite being the GREATEST. But do our actions or our words reflect what Mastergaru says???

And at the end of it we talk about goal, life and what not !

This is the irony I feel most of us would have realized in our own daily lives. The dichotomy - the clear separation between what we read during Parayana and what we do outside it.

After going through the above, I realized, sometimes, how futile it is, and how daring we should be to even implement one single teaching of Master garu.

What caught my attention was the "clear separation between what we read and what we do outside of it....". So true!! Do you think I am heading in the right direction with what I specified above? Taking time to remove one thing at a time. Can't we do that? IF we can't, then why can't we? If we can, how can we move forward even faster??

This was actually mentioned by Sri Chaitanya Swamyji long time back, about keeping one year target to remove/develop!! Let's say for example, Master garu mentioned in Pravachanamulu, that initially, learning to ride a bicycle takes a lot of effort and concentration. After several years, it's like your nervous system automatically does it while you are eating, drinking, talking etc etc. While doing those things, you still ride the bicycle very very effectively. That happened only because you practised it very hard initially. In the same way, the things which are considered bad in spirituality, can't we remove them just like riding a bicycle? Atleast the easiest ones?? by practising very very hard, for the initial years?

Asterias garu, I do not mean to sound that doing the above is very easy. It is really very difficult, not as easy as riding a bicycle, but we can definitely try. What I wanted to ask was, once we fall down, how do we get up? How do we decrease the separation between what we read and we are doing? How do we remove that separation forever?

Somehow, your post has shown me the same helplessness about my inability to move forward in Master's teachings, just like what Babu garu did when HE asked all of us, what makes us book a return ticket from Shirdi? What is making us return from Shirdi? Why not buy one-way ticket and just stay there by forgetting everything else??? It is also equivalent to Master garu's teaching of doing parayana and putting it into practise 100% OR more like Master's Diamond జీవితమే సాధనలొ భాగం కావలి, సాధన జీవితం లొ భాగం కాకుడదు "Jeevithame saadhana lo bhaagam kaavali, saadhana jeevitham lo bhaagam kaakudadu". HELPLESS!

I guess, we can be true devotees of Master once we implement the above to 100% effect.

Pleas share your views and forgive me if I said something bad.

Regards!
Jai Sai Master!
Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: Asterias on March 17, 2009, 06:48:07 AM
Jai Sai Master !

Dear Ananthgaru and other Sai bandhus

Ananthgaru you talk of taking one year to remove/develop a habit. This is similar to what Ammagaru told in the new year speech 2006-2007 (I think).

Also you talk about 21 day cycle. Actually we believe in a 40 day cycle, that is why the Deeksha period is 40 days.

But think of it Ananthgaru, the sincerity we have towards remove/develop a habit in the initial days does it sustain ? And if does not sustain why?? In my view the answer lies in the importance that we give to remove/develop a habit. If we see a motive that is not long lasting, its not going to work.

And so my question, what should be the first step ? Usually we attribute removal or development of some of the easier habits to spirituality and dont bother about the other tougher ones. But see the irony, we could have removed/developed that habit without even the need of spirituality. So is it not like wasting a blank cheque ? This is what I am talking about.

Hope I am clear (about the question, the answer i am still unclear!)

Jai Sai Master !
Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: Saiuttampallavi on March 17, 2009, 04:42:43 PM
Jai Sai Master.

Quote
So, we put a target of 1 year to continuously do the satsangam every thursday without missing at any cost. By Master's blessings, that target was met successfully and now, it is like we miss something if we even think of missing it.

Ananth garu,

Jai Sai Master for the sankalpam of yours. We experience the same.

We have Satsang on every alternate Saturdays and on every Saturday sometimes. It appears to be ideal to all of us as it makes it tough for few to attend the satsangs during the week days and especially during harsh weather. You may try this and see.

Master garu mentioned about this aspect in Satsangam-Bhajana.

Asterias garu,

Quote
we could have removed/developed that habit without even the need of spirituality.
How do we know what we have removed/developed right?

Quote
Usually we attribute removal or development of some of the easier habits to spirituality and dont bother about the other tougher ones.

Happy news is atleast we start with easyones. When we are ready for the tough ones, we realize it and they may not appear as tough ones but just easy ones.  Constant paarayana, Listening to Master gari speeches alerts us and it happens so naturally we would have implemented the tough ones. This is what we think and experiencing now.

Quote
And so my question, what should be the first step ?

What we understand is if we removed/developed what Sai Master garu advises us is something needs be done sincerely till we start doing it as a natural part of our life.

To gain inspiration, we share about Sai Bhakta Megha.

If we keenly observe Megha's life, he did not have complete faith in Baba initially. Master garu explains  in Sai Leelamrutam 'సాయి  సర్వజ్ఞతకు మేఘుడాశ్చర్య పోయాడే  కాని తన శంక తొలగక షిర్డి నుండి వెళ్లిపోయాడు'..  But with Baba's blessings he gains faith and comes back to Shirdi.

Then onwards, he started doing some practices which Baba encouraged him to do without fail. He used to walk every day for four miles . We thought about it, did Baba ask him to do this? Might not be? The devotion might have arose in him naturally from his janma samskara and / or due to his presence near Baba and / or his determination to practice his sincere thoughts. But if we observe, with this he started doing puja to Baba as exactly as he used to do puja for Lord Siva. That means Baba has become his Lord. His mind ultimately reached the destination.

Baba helped him a lot when he made mistakes like asking Megha to do puja at Khandoba Temple first always which would have improved his nishta constantly.

Baba also supported him by giving 'Shiva Linga' to pray. We can read it in Sai Leelamrutam chapter 'Sadgathi'. Here Master garu explains about many aspects of our duty.

And ultimately Megha has become the 'Nijamaina Bhaktudu'.

The word 'Hrudaya pariwartana' హ్రుదయ పరివర్తన touches our hearts most.

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And so my question, what should be the first step ?

1. Think with the help of Paarayana of Mahatmas Teachings. Come closer to Mahatmas (in the form of Paarayana Books).

2. Try / Attempt / practice

3. May Make mistakes or may not which would have moved us ahead.

4. Realize (  'Hrudaya pariwartana' హ్రుదయ పరివర్తన )

For realization, we think of two aspects - one from from our actions with outside world and other one from our postive or negative actions happens from inside.

First one can be realized by following Amma gari words which must help us if our mistakes are out of our ahankara .
" ఇతరులను విమర్షించేవాడు అవివేకి. తనను తాను విమర్షించుకునేవాడు వివేకి అని ". 

Second one can be realized by following Babu gari words 
'The secret is never to forget the lessons learnt! ' . We can apply to removed/developed part too.

5. Retry / reattempt / Re-practice
Naturally with experiences learnt will make us more devote towards what we are doing this time.

Satsang supports at each and every stage of this cycle.

Please share your thoughts.

Jai Sai Master.
Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: Asterias on March 18, 2009, 10:10:19 AM
Jai Sai Master !

Dear Sai bandhus, Ananthgaru and Saiuttampallavigaru, With the spirit of improving ourselves and our understanding, ill ask a few things. My intention is not to hurt or to condemn.
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For example, being here in Canada, it was almost becoming next to impossible to get Sai Bhaktas to do satsangam. We tried many ways to give introduction to Sai Master, but we were total failures. We got frustrated. We developed that frustration by changing it into our laziness. I guess, by our pure good luck and the blessings of Master garu, we started doing it again with the right attitude. This happened 2 years back. We thought, no matter what, whether someone comes to the satsangam or not, it is our duty to tell them. If they don't, then forget it and let's do it ourselves with being just one family. So, we put a target of 1 year to continuously do the satsangam every thursday without missing at any cost. By Master's blessings, that target was met successfully and now, it is like we miss something if we even think of missing it.

I dont know how you are interpreting this incident, but here is my view of it. Satsangam is done to better ourselves. To say that its for others is never the right thing. So, if I might say, initially the understanding that you had was not correct. Later on it became correct. And you might say that you removed your laziness or reduced it, but i would say that its matter of understanding. Satsangam is the connection/realization of the omnipresent.

 ?Satsang is association with the Divine Reality which is eternal and omnipresent. To be aware of it at all times is satsang."

So one needs to do irrespective of whether others are coming or not. Dont we need to have the association with the Divine throughout the day??? This is my opinion.

But again, what do you do in satsangam? Do you do it exactly as Mastergaru says in Satsangam and Bhajana. Are other books of Mastergaru read??
Do we finish the satsangam and start our normal gossips? Are we developing faith in the supreme protection that Baba offers us ...
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What we understand is if we removed/developed what Sai Master garu advises us is something needs be done sincerely till we start doing it as a natural part of our life.

You are talking about accepting Mastergaru as the authority, whereas I am questioning spirituality itself. The reason is that if we are able to do like what Mastergaru asks us to do completely, then we would be following the path as set by Him, not wasting even one second and sure to reach the goal in this life itself. But even when we do Parayana, are we getting the real meaning of Parayana or is it a mere book reading at least sometimes ? If one says that Parayana is happening the way Mastergaru says then why are leaving the book at all. Why restrict it to 1 or 2 hours a day. Why not it be the life itself. ? Even before we sit down for Parayana, we have decided that it is going to be done for this much time or this many pages. I think Parayana as a form of sadhana loses it value from that time itself.

If we say that we are trying to do what Mastergaru says (focus on trying) then that means our clarity on Mastergaru as an authority or a guide is not yet established fully. In such a case, we are not fully accepting what Mastergaru is saying.

Its like the Winner's paradox that Babugaru talks about. Winners dont try to win, they are already winners. Till the time you try to win, you are not a winner.

Also, in view of 1 year for removal and development, please try to put it in the purview of what Mastergaru says in Sai Baba and His Teachings, chapter one, page 1:

"Once we study his life with a discerning eye, we cannot refrain from reflecting and contemplating the same and the more we reflect, the more we discover ever new dimensions and nuances, and without any conscious effort on our part similar tendencies of thought-following action engrain themselves in us. Thus a subtle and imperceptible, a positive transformation, a kind of spiritual alchemy takes place in our being. It is to be noted that any genuine development in us is bound to be unconscious and only at the end of the long process, if we ever feel like to look back to our own past, we will be able to appreciate the difference. Otherwise a profound peace and a good sense of harmony with the whole of existence pulsates as our life and moments pass with a sense of new realization, a sense of novelty. We will be able to see the eternal novelty of all existence. Any other form of development with is self conscious, is at best spectacular and artificial and hence it does not last. Every peak experience is bound to be followed by a dippression"
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Happy news is atleast we start with easyones. When we are ready for the tough ones, we realize it and they may not appear as tough ones but just easy ones.  Constant paarayana, Listening to Master gari speeches alerts us and it happens so naturally we would have implemented the tough ones. This is what we think and experiencing now.

What I was also trying to point out there was, why we dont have the same intensity all throughout this one year period for removing or developing? Removing something or developing something lies in the bigger persepective of what we think is our goal. And that is precisely what this thread is all about. Another point that I have is that how to realize what to remove or to develop. Even if the goal is clear (to a certain extent), one needs to find out what is the source of bad qualities in me. Usually irritation leads to frustration and then anger etc etc. The order might be different for different people and may even be different for the same person at different times, but yet there is an order. Once that order is understood, one can remove the source of it so that others are removed at the same time. If one does not want to do Parayana, then by forcing Parayana on such a person, we are not helping that person. One should understand why Parayana needs to be done, and then do it. The difference between ideally why a thing is to be done and why we are doing it, needs to be understood.

Jai Sai Master !
Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: Ananth on March 18, 2009, 12:58:51 PM
Jai Sai Master, Babu garu..
Jai Sai Master, Sai Bandhus..

Jai Sai Master, Asterias garu & Uttam garu..

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I dont know how you are interpreting this incident, but here is my view of it. Satsangam is done to better ourselves. To say that its for others is never the right thing. So, if I might say, initially the understanding that you had was not correct. Later on it became correct. And you might say that you removed your laziness or reduced it, but i would say that its matter of understanding. Satsangam is the connection/realization of the omnipresent.

I ask for forgiveness if my incident has given way to miscommunication. Let me redescribe everything that went behind the incident.

After years of parayana, and slowly coming to see the greatness of Master garu, there came a time, when we will genuinely want to be a part of life that is bigger than us. We would want to contribute something beyond our reason, it could be love or respect or bhakti or the combination of all. That longing was developed after developing bhakti, respect, and love towards Master. Next question is, how can I be a part of something bigger than life which will make Master bless me? By spread His words!! His teachings!! Why "Bless me"?? Because I want Master to be my sadguru! Why Master only?? Because something tells me that He is the "saati leni sadguru". That "Something" cannot be explained, atleast not by me. But I experienced it after his "swapna darsanamulu",..after reading His books, after doing parayana regularly, after attending satsangam. Please do remember, I did this with lots of imperfection, and many times with the blatant, shamless reason for my life to be more luxurious (as an example), but sometimes with the purpose of not bettering myself but to introduce others to see  Master also!!

So, with that intention, I wanted to be a part of what Master asked us. What did he ask us?? To do parayana, to spread the word of Sai, to the best of our ability. Having experienced (0.01%) of His greatness, I wanted to tell others of His greatness and the greatness of His Sadguru, namely "Sai Baba". So, we started trying to tell others about Master. But to no effect. People still considered Sai Baba as a God but not as a Sadguru who is waiting, who is watching, who is around us, inside us....but we still prayed to Him only as a God. Apart from this, I also observed that many people (just like me, who was going in the wrong direction until I met Master in the form of "Sai Baba the Master") gave importance to miracles, the "False Miracles". So, we genuinely wanted them to see the greatness of Master's way of Satsangam.

Why did we do it? Not because we thought the satsangam was for others. But because we wanted them to be the same Sugar cubes into the nectar of water called "Sai Master".

So, Asterias garu, please forgive me but I think you misunderstood when I meant about Satsangam for others. Besides, we always wanted to follow the particular point of Master where He says in Leelamrutam ఇలాంటి ఒడుదుడుకులకు గల కారణాలలొ - సాటి వారి పట్ల మనకుండే భావము, వారి స్వభావాలలో కుడా ఉంటాయి....అంటే సాటి వారి లోని, మనలోని బలహీనతలే ప్రధాన కారణాలు. సాంగత్యానికి మనపై మనమూహించలెనంతటి ప్రభావము ఉంటుంది. సాటి వారి ద్రుష్టి కుడా సంస్కరించబడుతూ ఉంటే మన యత్నమూ సులభము అవుతూ ఉంటుంది...


"ilaanti odudukulaku gala kaaranaalalo - saati vaari patla manakunde bhaavamu, vaari swabhaavaalalo kuda untaayi....ante saati vaari loni, manaloni balaheenathale pradhaana kaaranaalu. saangatyaaniki manapai manamoohinchalenantati prabhaavamu untundi. saati vaari drushti kuda samskarinchabadutoo unte mana yatnamoo sulabhamu avtoo untundi...."

So, althought we wanted others to follow Master's satsangam, it is not just for us and it is also not just for them. It is the "saamoohika parayana" that we do in the form of satsangam that gives us the strength to better ourselves.

Asterias garu, here itself, we are following some points of Master garu. One, Satsangam, two telling others of satsangam, and not to feel elated and proud of our achievements and not to feel that we are better than others, Master told us about "atma vimarsa". As long as we do the self-introspection at the same time of spreading Master's words, we are bettering ourselves. Agreed!! We are not moving fast, but we are moving. Don't you think so??

I am still in awe of what you wrote regarding other points which I am trying to think, I will continue if I can arrive at a better answer.
Until that time there are some more that I want to bring out Asterias garu.

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If we say that we are trying to do what Mastergaru says (focus on trying) then that means our clarity on Mastergaru as an authority or a guide is not yet established fully. In such a case, we are not fully accepting what Mastergaru is saying.

I do not agree with you asterias garu. Just because we don't have a clarity on what Master garu said, it is not enough to say that we are not fully accepting what Master garu is saying. I know this might be a lame example but a case in point is Master garu says that after achieving some powers we will be able to see 360 degrees. How to achieve that? He laid out a clear plan...physical, mental, philosphical, emotiional, spiritual..every step of the way He laid out a plan. It's up to us to follow that plan to fruition. It may take 1 life for some, 1000 lives for oters and a trillion lives for most of us. But I won't stop accepting what Master told me in those books.
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But even when we do Parayana, are we getting the real meaning of Parayana or is it a mere book reading at least sometimes ? If one says that Parayana is happening the way Mastergaru says then why are leaving the book at all. Why restrict it to 1 or 2 hours a day. Why not it be the life itself. ? Even before we sit down for Parayana, we have decided that it is going to be done for this much time or this many pages. I think Parayana as a form of sadhana loses it value from that time itself.

Most of the times, it is mere book reading for me. But that's exactly the point of Master garu. It depends on the strength of the devotee. Sadguruvu evvarini vaalla saktiki minchi atmapadamloki laaga choodaru!! (Ref: Leelamrutam). Also in the chapter "Satsanga Mahima" Master says "Atma gnaanamu kalige lopala manaku konni avasaaraalu kashtaalu teerchukochoodatam tappadu". And that's what I meant about a target. Just on a physical plane itself, we need weeks to come out of a habit, you can imagine the mental perspective of it. So, with practice and failure and repractise, we will someday achieve what Master garu said.

Asterias garu, it is a burning question and appreciate your sincerity of it, my intention is never to say "you are wrong". But at the same time, please try to understand our helplessnes in our quest for perfection. We cannot, in an overnight say "this book is my life". Maybe we can, after Master gives us the permission and He takes us through. But Master might also be seeing that we are not yet ripe. So, althought I see the importance of your yearning, I see the "Meru Parvatam laanti" "odudukulu" of life, and that is where no one in this universe has given the teachings as effectively as Master did. His teachings take us one step at a time, safe and sound. His Bridge to Perfection is built upon the unbreakable cement of simple practicality, topped with cement-like smoothness of Parayana, and made tough by another topping of Water in the form of Satsangam. On this bridge, there are millions of "walkers", 1000s of rickshaws, 100s of autos, and 10s of cars. We never know when Master will come in a roccket and take us. Just like He said many times, open the doors of our hearts and wait for the rocket to lift us. That's all!!

Hope I did not offend you Asterias garu, but these are my frank opinions.

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Do we finish the satsangam and start our normal gossips? Are we developing faith in the supreme protection that Baba offers us ...

Good that you brought this up. Yes, indeed!! We were doing the satsangam just like you said, for some years. But when we started reading Leelamrutam of Master, we came to know how incorrect we were doing. So, we started implementing the teachings in such a way that people arrive in satsangam in the established time, do the satsangam, take the tiny prasasdam, say "jai Sai Master" and then leave. Before that, devotees (including ourselves, many years back) started showing-off the power, by cooking lots of fancy food, singing many many bhajans, trying to sing like a great singer instead of concentrating on Baba, wearing nice clothes, and worst of all, chit-chatting after the satsangam. But once we started reading Master's teachings, we slowly moved out of those habits. Another point which was done as Master told us.

Finally Asterias garu,
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What I was also trying to point out there was, why we dont have the same intensity all throughout this one year period for removing or developing? Removing something or developing something lies in the bigger persepective of what we think is our goal. And that is precisely what this thread is all about. Another point that I have is that how to realize what to remove or to develop. Even if the goal is clear (to a certain extent), one needs to find out what is the source of bad qualities in me. Usually irritation leads to frustration and then anger etc etc. The order might be different for different people and may even be different for the same person at different times, but yet there is an order. Once that order is understood, one can remove the source of it so that others are removed at the same time. If one does not want to do Parayana, then by forcing Parayana on such a person, we are not helping that person. One should understand why Parayana needs to be done, and then do it. The difference between ideally why a thing is to be done and why we are doing it, needs to be understood.

Agreed, word for word. But please try to understand the "degree" of it. The limits of each of us. You were asking why we cannot have the same intensity through out one year. If we are able to maintain the same intensity for the entire 365 days, then we don't need one year do we?? The one year maybe a yardstick. Some take more, some take less, but the intention is to remove it from its roots. For that to happen, we need to sharpen the wood-cutting knife, keep ploughing the underground roots one shot at a time, and doubly make sure that there are no more roots which will give take the strength of the earth/water/sunlight to grow into a "weed" again. As Master says, "mallee mallee kalupu teestoo, neeru postoo unte, gedalu paadu cheyyakundaa unte, appudu manchi thota pergutundi". For all this, it cannot happen fast, not atleast for many of us.

Best regards!!
Jai Sai Master
Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: Saiuttampallavi on March 18, 2009, 10:21:57 PM
Jai SaiMaster.

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You are talking about accepting Mastergaru as the authority, whereas I am questioning spirituality itself. The reason is that if we are able to do like what Mastergaru asks us to do completely, then we would be following the path as set by Him, not wasting even one second and sure to reach the goal in this life itself.

Asterias garu,

We have to agree with Ananth garu.We are in the first steps of understanding Master gari teachings. If we say we are following Master garu completely, dont believe us because we have just completed reading all Master gari Books only once and not even remember many aspects of teachings. But what we are doing is take a small portion of Master gari teachings say Nitya Paarayanam and Satsangam on a regular basis and experimenting how far we can change our attitudes, how far we can gain self confidence. But our samskaras gained so far are big hurdles of practicing every second. We still worry about our jobs, we still worry about future but the intensity of worrying is reducing. This is the clarity we gain now with practice of small portion of Master gari Teachings.

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But even when we do Parayana, are we getting the real meaning of Parayana or is it a mere book reading at least sometimes ? If one says that Parayana is happening the way Mastergaru says then why are leaving the book at all. Why restrict it to 1 or 2 hours a day. Why not it be the life itself. ? Even before we sit down for Parayana, we have decided that it is going to be done for this much time or this many pages. I think Parayana as a form of sadhana loses it value from that time itself.

(we have edited part of what we expressed earlier after thinking for some time.)

We do agree with you that our paarayanas become mechanical. But we can look back and see the difference. We are trying to be optimistic here.

We never used to do paaryana.
We used to do paarayana when we had problems.
We used to do paarayana once in a while but used to continue till it completes.
We used to do paarayana on a regular basis but one para out of lazyness and out of busy schedule.
We used to do paarayana on a regular basis irrespective of busy schedule.
We are doing paarayana as a saptaha because it was told that it is good.
We are doing paarayana as a saptaha because we love do it that way.
We still love paarayana. And we can not do anything else without starting the day without paarayana. We are trying to spend as much time as possible in paarayana.

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I think Parayana as a form of sadhana loses it value from that time itself.

We accept this if we are continuously doing paarayana mechanically. Love to read this many times. "Parayana as a form of sadhana".

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If we say that we are trying to do what Mastergaru says (focus on trying) then that means our clarity on Mastergaru as an authority or a guide is not yet established fully.

It is correct. We will share our thoughts in the next couple of days.

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In such a case, we are not fully accepting what Mastergaru is saying.
We do not agree with this part.

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My intention is not to hurt or to condemn.

One valuable lesson we learnt is having the heart of acceptance during Satsang like here always helps us to gain the benefits because we can learn many great things which can not be learnt for many many years from just reading. We think it becomes a part of mananam of what we read during paarayana.
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What I was also trying to point out there was, why we dont have the same intensity all throughout this one year period for removing or developing? Removing something or developing something lies in the bigger persepective of what we think is our goal. And that is precisely what this thread is all about. Another point that I have is that how to realize what to remove or to develop. Even if the goal is clear (to a certain extent), one needs to find out what is the source of bad qualities in me. Usually irritation leads to frustration and then anger etc etc. The order might be different for different people and may even be different for the same person at different times, but yet there is an order. Once that order is understood, one can remove the source of it so that others are removed at the same time. If one does not want to do Parayana, then by forcing Parayana on such a person, we are not helping that person. One should understand why Parayana needs to be done, and then do it. The difference between ideally why a thing is to be done and why we are doing it, needs to be understood.

We would like to discuss more on this to get clarity. Hopefully do this in another couple of days.

Jai Sai Master.
Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: Asterias on March 20, 2009, 09:50:27 PM
Jai Sai Master !

My definition of acceptance, or the way I see acceptance is based on understanding. The more we understand about Mastergaru, the more our acceptance of Him is.  I guess this was the root of the debate regarding acceptance.

But when someone says that Mastergaru's way has been accepted, what s the next step??

1. Is doing Paryana or Satsangam what Mastergaru told ?

2. I used to have this doubt and I am mentioning it here. When you read SaiBaba Aartulu (The small book), Mastergaru says that Baba's anugraham is there on someone who does Aarti. In Dhyana Yoga Sarwaswam He talks about how to lead the ideal day ( kind of routine), in which there is no mention of Aarti. So what should I follow?

In one book, Mastergaru says that nothing should be accepted on the face of it, that one must find out for Himself what is true and what is not true. In another book, He says that, are we not accepting what scientists are saying, similarly we should listen to what our elders say. So what sh ould I follow?

If you read Sai Baba and His teachings, I found one thing really interesting. May be some of you have gone through it. On page 42, He gives one definition for work, on page 91 He gives a completely different meaning for it (Work, utter Lord's name, read scriptures) So what should I follow?

Specifically with regard to Parayana, I find that lot of people do it without knowing it for which reason. Doing Parayan is not the end. Are we doing Tatvachintana ?? Babugaru often repeats the statement from Pravachanlu, "Tatvachintane tarwate Bhakti kalugtondi ......"

Whether we accept Mastergaru or not, whether we have enough faith in Him or not is all too personal/subjective to be debated. One needs to be really honest with one's self.

Jai Sai Master !
Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: Ananth on March 21, 2009, 01:46:52 AM
Jai Sai Master, Babu garu..
Jai Sai Master, Sai Bandhus..

Jai Sai Master, Asterias garu..

Great that you are leading us to so many thoughts. The one thing that I am worried about and the one thing that you hit the nail on its head, or rather should I say "on my head"  :) is about Parayana. Before coming to that part, I am pondering about those two points that you mentioned in the latest post.

You are asking "what you should do about two contrasting statements of Master garu". I am definitely not the authority nor have the capability to answer even in a decent way but here's my thought. Master garu in Pravachanamulu, talks about Karma and Bhakti with contrasting questions. He uses the example of flowing Hot-Oil coming towards you. Do you pray to God to rescue you? If yes, then why worry that the oil is coming towards you? If not, if you are taking care of yourself and are ready to rescue yourself, then why pray to God and why worry at all about what's gonna happen? Also, Master garu explains that both of them are correct, where you pray to God as part of one responsibility and also try with your trials as another responsibility. Getting a rope to hang in the air to escape the oil is "God rescuing you " and you taking the rope and trying your best to hang on in the air is your trial. It is different sides of the same coin.

I might not be completely correct but the above situation applies to your doubts. You MUST have that coin of two different sides to reach to a fruitful spirituality. You cannot just depend on the books and at the same time you cannot just depend on what Mahatmas said. I am thinking that's what Master must have told us in two contrasting styles. Infact, I am recollecting that Master garu Himself has gone through that process where He asked His father about the importance of putting the first morsel of food outside as a spiritual gesture. He questioned but at the same time, He researched the answer without believing the face value of it.

Similarly, in point # 2, you are mentioning about Arati. That is the same reason, I THINK!! It all depends on the degree of understanding as you specified in the post. Besides, it also depends on our mood. Please forgive me for using the word "mood" because we are, atleast I am like that. Sometimes, I feel like doing arati and other times, I just want to read a book of Master. No matter how much I try, I cannot do the arati with concentration. So, whatever mood we are in, as long as we concentrate in some way on Sai Master, we are going forward. As Master garu explains in Dhyana Yoga sarwaswam, "Going from one process to another process is by itself a change of air and change of mood". I guess, Master garu must be explaining different aspects, say, a,b,c,d,e. One could do a,b,c and another could do c,d,a but the main point is He must have explained it as per the mentality of the reader. I feel that it is upto us to mix it up and make it interesting and stay in the path specified by Master garu.

As, write all this, please believe me, I am the worst when it comes to discipline. So, I know every inch of your question.

Coming to the most important part of your question, regarding Parayana. Many times, I feel the same pinch. Why can't I just increase it a little bit more? Why can't I do it all day long? Just like you asked previously, why restrict to 2 hours? Every single day, I sit down, an hour, do parayana, and then I say "that's enough" and I hurry up with my worldly activities. Right now, I should be increasing my parayana because I am staying home. I should be utilizing more but I am not doing that. That pinches me but the pinch does not last enough to get my bum off to the pooja room, sit before Baba and start my parayana. That pinch is not strong enough, and I don't know how to make it strong. Even if by pure luck I get that inspiration, I sit, I feel happy and closer to Sai Master, but that does not last. What to do??

And I agree with you Asterias garu. I am not even 1% honest when it comes to that "Pinch"  that I am talking about. You termed it correctly. We need to be honest. But how?? My problem is, I develop a little bhakti, maybe for 30 seconds, and then I lose it.

Before I forget, thanks to you, my parayana has a little more intensity, ever since we started this post Asterias garu. It did not increase on length but definitely I feel a little better with my parayana. Out of 9 pages, 7 pages are mere reading. But atleast 2 pages, I am able to read it with concentration and it is leading to more thoughts of my reading other books of Master garu. But like I said, your questions still remain my questions too. I am not honest with myself.

So, as a first step to your pointer of what Babu garu said, I will start with Tatwa-chintana. I am not saying that I will DO TATWACHINTANA. I will try to understand it first and then attempt to see if I can increase my parayana.

In the mean time, I will stop blabbering by saying "Thank you" for your "what next" in your first post. "What Next" is really a very important question. It makes or breaks us in many ways! And I think we ask this in many many many ways both spiritually and materialistically.

Regards!

Jai Sai Master!

PS:  :) :) I really miss my work. The one hour lunch time is almost always spent in online satsangam. Now, staying home, all I do in lunch time is  :)  cook, watch movies, play with children.
Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: Saiuttampallavi on March 21, 2009, 04:41:10 AM
Jai Sai Master.

Asterias garu, Ananth garu,

Quote
If we say that we are trying to do what Mastergaru says (focus on trying) then that means our clarity on Mastergaru as an authority or a guide is not yet established fully.
We say it is correct as we are looking at the first part of "we are trying to do" because of two things here

1. We are trying to follow Master gari sayings to the extent we can at this stage of our life.
2. We also do not have complete clarity of Master gari Teachings. We have taken the words 'authority or a guide' as synonym to teachings.

If we say we are following, then that means we have already understood Master gari Teachings completely and following them. That means we have already reached our destination.

This is evident from your other above questions from today. Honestly speaking we would like to put sincere effort to know about them.

Quote
In one book, Mastergaru says that nothing should be accepted on the face of it, that one must find out for Himself what is true and what is not true. In another book, He says that, are we not accepting what scientists are saying, similarly we should listen to what our elders say. So what should I follow?

We have chosen the second option of following SaiMaster gari teachngs because of the reasons:

1. We have many limitations (mainly lack of sincerity and knowledge how to do it) of choosing the first path that one must find out for Himself what is true and what is not true.

2. Faith developed from the minimum time of practice of Master gari Teachings after noticing positive change in our attitudes.

Our experience of noticing the positive changes in our personal lives with the help of Paarayana Books of Master garu has been a big console as we are developing slight sincerity towards clarifying about our doubts instead of blindly following the Teachings. It is something like Master garu is teaching us about many aspects of Teachings in Paarayana Books. Sad part is our effort is still very very minimum.

We have learnt some answers in Master gari speech here related to the above question:

http://www.divyajanani.org/saibharadwaja/audiovideos/telugu/25a.%20Bhagawad%20Gita%20Day%201.mp3

Jai Sai Master.
Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: Asterias on March 21, 2009, 05:46:40 AM
Jai Sai Master !

Dear Ananthgaru and Saiuttampallavigaru

Based on the previous posts, dont you feel that we accept from Mastergaru's teachings that which is suitable to us physically, mentally and spiritually?

And knowing our own inadequacies, dont you think that there is a chance that what we consider "suitable", might not at all be suitable for us? What I mean by this is that Mastergaru never said do a,b,c,d,e etc etc. HE told that to do 'a', you need to remember this, you need to have this attitude, if you do 'b', you need to remember this, and you need to have this attitude ...

No way is unsuitable, but at the end of the day, its our honesty that counts. Whether you sit for Parayana or not is not the question at all. Whether you do satsangam or not is not the question at all. Are you being honest to yourself? Are you able to do that to others, which you want them to do to you? I think those are the pertinent questions. Again, what is spirituality, and do we really beleive in it (Mastergaru says that one who knows true spirituality can never not do it, which implies, we dont have full grasp of it)

As Babugaru once said, when we are doing Parayana, whenever good things are told , we equate it to us. Whenever bad things are told, we remember what others do and what are the faults in them! In the same way, as mentioned above, we take from Mastergaru's teachings that which appeals to us. So if Mastergaru says that the goal of life is x, y, z .. we would probably read it as a,b,c... This is our state.

I am not criticizing this state that we are all in. I am just trying to say that in this state, one should try to think for himself, rather than blindly follow someone (and that too our interpretation of "follow"). What Mastergaru says in His books is GOLD. But frankly we cant seem to apply to it. We are all trying, but I think till the time we are trying, we are also understanding (as compared to understood). So we need to think for ourselves!!

So what is the "GOAL of LIFE" ???

Jai Sai Master!

ps: nice discussion going on here, please continue :) Hope other members too start contributing and adding to it whatever we might miss.
Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: Swayam on March 21, 2009, 08:04:18 AM
Jai Sai Master!

PS:  :) :) I really miss my work. The one hour lunch time is almost always spent in online satsangam. Now, staying home, all I do in lunch time is  :)  cook, watch movies, play with children.

Y'day I was just thinking about my options in office and I see that I have below two options
ProjectA - very hectic one which adds lots of value to my resume and leaves me little time to do parayana
ProjectB- not so great project, which will not add much value, but leaves me with lots of time to do parayana as the  project is not hectic.Even if I have lots of time, will I indulge all the time in paryana is altogether a question in itself.

These two options y'day just sprang to my mind, automatically my mind went for A .
Immediately after that, I felt very guilty.Lots of questions came in my mind.
Why the hell I chose A, Is it that Iam more interested in my carreer rather than doing parayana.
Is it that I give more importance to my career than parayana.
Actually it will be Parayana which will give me long lasting happiness than building my career.
Though I know this why did my mind chose option A.I felt ashamed.

Why is that this mind takes options which give short lived happiness, though very well I know
that the happiness will be short lived with some options and I don't take options that give
long lasting happiness.

My apologies, if Sai Bandhus feel that Iam diverting this thread.But somehow when I saw the "PS" from
Ananth garu, I felt like discussing the above here.

One more thing I want to add to this disussion is, when we do parayana it makes lots of difference
when we really "feel" or "understand" the feeling with which Master garu wrote that.
Often, I miss the "tapana" , "aardhrata" with which Master garu wrote the books.
If we can resonate with that feeling, I think the job is done.But sometimes Iam able to achieve this
resonance and most of the times not.

Jai Sai Master!

Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: Saiuttampallavi on March 21, 2009, 05:59:56 PM
Jai Sai Master.

Swayam garu,

Thanks for sharing. It benefits all. Absolutely your thoughts are well inside the current objective of this thread.

Whatever all of us are saying above has been put it very nicely by you. The words used by each one of us is different but the meaning is one and the same.

Quote
One more thing I want to add to this discussion is, when we do parayana it makes lots of difference
when we really "feel" or "understand" the feeling with which Master garu wrote that.
Often, I miss the "tapana" , "aardhrata" with which Master garu wrote the books.
If we can resonate with that feeling, I think the job is done.But sometimes Iam able to achieve this
resonance and most of the times not.

We will share our thoughts soon.

Jai Sai Master.
Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: Asterias on March 21, 2009, 08:50:10 PM
Jai Sai Master !
Quote
Actually it will be Parayana which will give me long lasting happiness than building my career.

Are you really sure about it ??? A lot of what you mean by the above statement depends on what you mean by "career" and "Parayana"

You are once again limiting Parayana to "reading" the book.

Jai Sai Master !
Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: Baba on March 21, 2009, 10:00:33 PM
Jai Sai Master!

Quote
I am not criticizing this state that we are all in. I am just trying to say that in this state, one should try to think for himself, rather than blindly follow someone (and that too our interpretation of "follow"). What Mastergaru says in His books is GOLD. But frankly we cant seem to apply to it. We are all trying, but I think till the time we are trying, we are also understanding (as compared to understood). So we need to think for ourselves!!

I'm completely agree with Asterias garu.

He is right on the topic.The way he is posing the questions, direct hit on the head.

We came to know about Baba, we came to know about the great master Baradwaja sir. but why we are still worry about overselves. why we are still trying to gain properties,career development, etc,,,, etc, as we came to know they are not the real sources of everlasting happiness. Cant we live with the money which we have right now....can't we give them(kids) better education??as good education will not come with money, its a true blessing. Why so many  excuses like we are busy.........i dont have time for parayana, i have 1hour for parayana.... etc.....etc.

We know Baba's assurances like those who dedicate their lives, he'll take care of themselves as well as their other family memebers. but why we are after all these. Why we not fully satisfied??That means we are not interested in the goal. we are not completely understand its value. if we do respect,faith,love on our guru SaiMaster completely why cant we completely surrender the steering wheel to him live accordingly.

These are all due to lack of Understanding. If we understand their(baba/master)teahings properly they can live without all these. They need not worry about all these things IMO. They just live like Sri Mastergaru and Ammagaru and Swamy garu.

Quote
So what is the "GOAL of LIFE" Huh


IMO before that one should understand WHAT IS LIFE. Why we are created by the Supreme power. What's its purpose?? etc...etc.

Jai Sai Master!

I want to add one more point here.....

Option 1. Good job with less money but lot of time for sadhana.

Option 2. Good job with lot money but minimum time for sadhana.

Among these 2 which one you all pick. Be frank. ;)
Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: Swayam on March 21, 2009, 11:29:03 PM
Jai Sai Master !
Quote
Actually it will be Parayana which will give me long lasting happiness than building my career.

Are you really sure about it ??? A lot of what you mean by the above statement depends on what you mean by "career" and "Parayana"

You are once again limiting Parayana to "reading" the book.

Jai Sai Master !

Yes Iam sure about it, as it is proven from the experiences of so many people as given in
Sai Leelamrutamu.

Iam yet to read all the books of Sai Master, so I don't know depth of the word Parayana.
One thing Iam sure is, reading the book is certainly a part of it.

Jai Sai Master!

Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: Swayam on March 21, 2009, 11:34:22 PM
I want to add one more point here.....

Option 1. Good job with less money but lot of time for sadhana.

Option 2. Good job with lot money but minimum time for sadhana.

Among these 2 which one you all pick. Be frank. ;)

Jai Sai Master!

Wow! what a concidence.In this thread itself, I posted similar question
Quote
Y'day I was just thinking about my options in office and I see that I have below two options
ProjectA - very hectic one which adds lots of value to my resume and leaves me little time to do parayana
ProjectB- not so great project, which will not add much value, but leaves me with lots of time to do parayana as the  project is not hectic.Even if I have lots of time, will I indulge all the time in paryana is altogether a question in itself.

These two options y'day just sprang to my mind, automatically my mind went for A .
Jai Sai Master!
Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: Asterias on March 22, 2009, 06:29:40 AM
Jai Sai Master !

Dear username "Baba" please change your username.The user name can create a lot of confusion to people who are new to these forums. I would like to request all the users to change their username (create a new one if required) if it similar to "Baba", "Master", "Dwarakanath", "Babugaru" .... It creates a lot of confusion in the minds of those who might be going through the forums for the first time. Secondly, there is a chance that people might send personal messages by associating you with the user name.

Coming to the discussion

Quote
I want to add one more point here.....

Option 1. Good job with less money but lot of time for sadhana.

Option 2. Good job with lot money but minimum time for sadhana.

Among these 2 which one you all pick. Be frank.

And I say what is "sadhana", when we dont know what we want in our life :)


Quote
Yes Iam sure about it, as it is proven from the experiences of so many people as given in
Sai Leelamrutamu.

Again, if you really believe in what is written in Leelamrutamu, you would be able to live the life as prescribed there. Dont you think so? So the understanding needs to be improved. I hope you are folllowing the thread, this point has been discussed.

Jai Sai Master !

Jai Sai Master !
Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: Baba on March 22, 2009, 07:15:55 AM
Jai Sai Master!

Quote
Posted by: asterias
Insert Quote
Jai Sai Master !

Dear username "Baba" please change your username.The user name can create a lot of confusion to people who are new to these forums. I would like to request all the users to change their username (create a new one if required) if it similar to "Baba", "Master", "Dwarakanath", "Babugaru" .... It creates a lot of confusion in the minds of those who might be going through the forums for the first time. Secondly, there is a chance that people might send personal messages by associating you with the user name.

Coming to the discussion

Dear Asterias,

I'm just a passive listener, and this is my first post. I am not criticising anyone here, that it self reflects my helplessness which urge me to write some thing here, bcaz I'm really feeling guilty for the way i am leading life. My main intention is to read and learn something, not to create any confusion. Sorry if it create any confusion to anyone.

Have a fruitful discussion.

Jai Sai Master!

Jai Sai Master!
Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: Asterias on March 22, 2009, 11:06:17 AM
Jai Sai Master !

Dear user name Baba - You did not understand what i said. Please do post in these forums. I am only asking you to change your username. Thats all :)

ps: THe user name Baba is shown as Guest, do guests automatically get this user name ?

Jai Sai Master !
Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: Ananth on March 22, 2009, 01:26:29 PM
Jai Sai Master, Babu garu..
Jai Sai Master, Sai Bandhus..
Jai Sai Master, Asterias garu..

Quote
I am not criticizing this state that we are all in. I am just trying to say that in this state, one should try to think for himself, rather than blindly follow someone (and that too our interpretation of "follow"). What Mastergaru says in His books is GOLD. But frankly we cant seem to apply to it. We are all trying, but I think till the time we are trying, we are also understanding (as compared to understood). So we need to think for ourselves!!

Asterias garu, can you please aloborate on this one? There are several doubts and thoughts on this para.

1) "One should try to think for himself rather than blindly follow someone".......
Question: Are you suggesting that we need to follow spirituality based on our own observation of the world? without a Guru or His Teachings either directly or through a grantha-parayana?

Doubt: If yes, How. If not, I need more clarification from you. Not to question your thought but to understand where you are going so that I can understand where I am going wrong.

As an example, there are many points indicated by Master garu where it does not make any sense, for me as a common man. But I would like to take the approach of "not guilty until proven". I want to test out the teachings that Master garu has explained, and until that time that I am ELIGIBLE to test the teachings, I will prepare myself in the way Master told in the books. In this case, I am following Master's teachings, without any prior knowledge. Just like you said, "our interpretation of 'follow' "....yes agree, definitely and 100% the way we follow is our interpretation only. But again, when we consider a yardstick at various points of our life, we can't but agree that we are going in the correct way. So, atleast in some sections or should I say, some incidents, whoever has come into Master's fold, has truly "followed" without any interpretations. Again as an example, I will compapre my life 10 years back about a life without Master's teachings and life NOW with Master's teachings, a world of difference. In this case, there is no interpretation of anybody. Master's influence is universal and uniform, on us. It's just the degree. Having said this, I completely agree witih you Asterias garu, we all interpret Master's teachings, but my point on this matter is, we have positive interpretations. I will take the same example of Baba's saying "Work, Utter Lord's Name, Read Holy Books". For person, who entered into Master's fold newly, will work 25% of the time, utter Lord's name 10% of the time and reads only 2 pages of Holy books. For another person, His day will be filled with almost 16 hours of what Master told and the remaining to tend his wordly duties. So, for the first person, instead of wasting his entire time in gossipping, he is putting 10% time on good work. In time, he will increase.

On this point, I would like to share an embarrassing situation :). When I came into Master's fold newly and came to know of the Parayana MAhatyam, I was reading 1 page of Leelamrutam. JUST ONE PAGE!! And I thought, that's good, I have done my work. So, One day, I had the luck of speaking to Sri Chaitanya Swamy on Phone, And He asked me whether I am doing parayana and how many pages am I doing? I proudly said, ONE PAGE!!  :) Swamy teased me so much about my "great One page parayana" that I Came to know what I said and how wrong I was. But Swamy never said anything to me. Just like a Father, he admonished me and asked me to read more. Over all these years, my parayana has not increased very much, but my understanding of how lucky I am to be in Master's fold is beyond my comprehension in the words. It is unspeakable and I cannot explain it. The life that, though imperfect with many many faulty characteristics in me, I lead now and the life I would have lead if I had not come into Master's fold gives me shivers, dreaded shivers!!!!

So, Asterias garu, there are many times, that we might be following Mahatmas blindly, but in time, we will realize their teachings to full potential. I also remember, in one of the earlier posts, Babu garu said, "we should not be following blindly of Mahatmas' teachings". I request Babu garu to teach us the right path and tell us whether that statement applies to every devotee or to some devotees as per the degree of understanding.

Quote
But frankly we cant seem to apply to it. We are all trying, but I think till the time we are trying, we are also understanding (as compared to understood). So we need to think for ourselves

Can I re-interpret this in another way Asterias garu? Please guide me in my doubts. Maybe I want to view it as "Understanding & and Experiencing" instead of "Understanding & Understood". Because, the moment we say we "understood" Master's teachings, we will experience it fully. Until that time, either we are preparing ourselves to test the teachings or actually testing the teachings. I am really scared of using the word "testing" but I don't know any alternative words. Please correct me.

But my questions still remains for your eloboration. "we need to think for ourselves".

Regards Asterias garu!

Jai Sai Master!
Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: Saiuttampallavi on March 22, 2009, 06:13:36 PM
Jai Sai Master.

Dear Sai Bandhus,

Have you noticed we have entered into Spring season. Let us try to take inspiration from the beautiful nature and let us try to fill our hearts with more positive thoughts. Every time like in our lives, seasons change and bring lot of hope. Actually it happens every day. Day starts with kind rising sun's rays, turns into bright light, turns different with generating lot of heat by afternoon, slowly reduces to again pleasant sunset and brings darkness to the day by night prompting people to switch on the lights till entering into dreams of light or darkness. Day again starts... So what is here all the time is light of new thoughts.

Jai Sai Master in the form of Nature.

We learnt from Sai Master Pravachanamulu. Master garu explained in one of the speeches. And this is what we learnt so far from this current discussion:

What is the essence of Paarayana?

Whether we do Paarayana one para or one page, are we giving value to the essence of Paarayana and is Paarayana turning into application / practice in our lives.

Work, Chant Lord's name, Read Sathgranthas:

Again essence is important. Each practice has the same objective. Currently we are not in a position to understand the similarities of these objectives.

We can only work. In this stage of our lives, we can only work. What we understand is yes, that is good. Do it as worship.
We can only chant God's name. Fine. Let us do it as true worship.
We can only do Paarayana . Fine. Let us only do Paarayanas as sincerely as possible.

What is our current state?

We can not work complete day. But still we want to do right things during the rest of the day. Ok, dont worry. Baba has given us options ( Baba knows our capabilities better than us )

Chant Lord's name, Read Sathgranthas.

Try it. They are not different from work. Great thing here is we are given with the advantage of learning from Mahatmas teachings so that we can do our work with even more compassion and devotion.

Mahatmas knows we start day one of our paarayanas with our assumptions, interpretations and can not even complete one single time reading Their teachings in the form of Paarayana. They have formulated some practices - , Niyamas, Sapthahas, Dwi Sapthahas, Tri saptahas, Nitya paarayana. Their intention is 'Give value to the paarayana and see the results to yourself. Noone else is interpreter here You, Your Self.' The competition is between what you are today and what you want to become in this life.

Come back again now to our current state:

We can only work. In this stage of our lives, we can only work.

Good. Now we know how we can do work with more zeal, compassion and devotion. Very interestingly we find ourselves more successful this time. We say Jai Sai Master for the opportunity given to us with valuable practices and more importantly for making us understand them with His teachings.

Jai Sai Master.
Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: Asterias on March 22, 2009, 09:03:51 PM
Jai Sai Master !

Dear Ananthgaru,  This is what I mean.

When I say that we must think for ourselves, these are some of the things that I meant:-

 In Mastergaru's books, there is an ideal way of life mentioned. He tells us how we can get to that stage. He also mentions the pitfalls to avoid, and in case you do fall into one or many of them, He tells the way out.  Mastergaru talks about the need of a Guru, how to identify one and how to do service to such a one.

Now, frankly do we believe in all this??? If we believe in the supreme power of the Guru, then dont you think we would be spending all our time in trying to reach the One who will take us across this samsara ??

So we need to logically and rationally think what we want in this life, rather than just jumping to "trupti and shanti". There are times when I want violence, when I want to shout, when I want to fight. There are times when I want to really spend my time in gossip, movies etc. And all this is inspite of reading Mastergaru's books.

Does it not clearly mean that I really dont believe in all the "mumbo - jumbo". I do believe in it, but only to a certain extent. But I cannot say that I have truly realized that His path is the "Raja Margam" and that "Parayana" is the ultimate thing. We accept that Parayana for us is not what it should be ideally. Its easy to say that we all have our shortcomings/misgivings. But there are times and we all know , when we plainly think of it as a drudgery. Atleast I do think so. I might feel bad later on, but thats my first response.

The essence is this: We think we know the importance of something, we think that we have accepted something. But we have not in reality. The fact that we feel guilty that we dint do aarti or dint do Parayana means that although we think we know the importance, it doesnt really come down to applicability. So instead of just coming to conclusions that Mastergaru tells, I need to think - I am doing Parayana - is it happening the way Mastergaru told? If yes then good. If no, then why not ? Do I really think that Mastergaru is the ONE. If I say yes, can I really give up something that I treasure the most if He asks me to? Can I leave all for Him? If I say that I have my misgivings, my weaknesses, then we are not yet ready. And by not ready, I mean we dont truly believe in all that He says.

In the intro to Shirdi Sai Haarthulu, Mastergaru says that in time, we will feel as if Baba is sitting in front of us. Has anyone really felt that ? I am not talking initially. Initially we all "try" to feel like that. But after a hard day of office work , its difficult to get up early in the morning the sake of Haarthi, day after day. And the fact that we dont feel Baba's presence, further makes us irritated.

One needs to think, whats wrong in my life? Ok I had troubles, what did I learn from them ? Am using Baba as a crutch to accept my shortcomings? Do I really think that Dattavatars will come down at our hearty praying, if yes then are we doing so?

This what I mean, we need to think for ourselves.

Jai Sai Master !
Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: Ananth on March 23, 2009, 01:24:32 AM
Jai Sai Master, Babu garu..
Jai Sai Master, Sai Bandhus..
Jai Sai Master, Asterias garu..

Dear Asterias, I think I am slowly understanding your post and the various things you said. Thank you for opening my eyes and my mind. The more I read, the more I am coming to know the difference of what I am and what I ideally want to be. Ofcourse, I still heartily believe that as per the degree of understanding for each of us, we will develop in that time frame (1 month for some, 1 year for some and 1 life for some etc). But even in that Nth Degree, I know deep inside that my life practices are far far away from my ideal mental interpretation of what an ideal day should be. My only idea is that it might not be possible to do it ASAP. For example, I know and I have experienced it myself this wonderful transformation. Everytime I did the saptaha parayana of Sri Guru Charitra or Sai Leelamrutam, invariably, like clockwork, my mind is tuned towards Baba more intensly, my work is completed (both materialistic and spiritual) without any hiccups, I get to understand myself a little bit more. But still, I only do it once in a while. My nitya parayana of Guru Charitra is only tri-saptaha and no matter what and how I convince myself, I don't increase it. But whatever I am doing, like I said, previously, atleast some percentage is helping me evolve better than yesterday.

But overall, I am grasping the understanding of how far away our ideal-day is, from the present day that I lead.

We are blessed by Master through this forum, because it makes me think. I know I have my slips, but I think a lot after such discussions, and out of a 100% of our discussion, I get to achieve 1%. I want to increase the percentage more.

UttamPallavi garu,
Quote
Noone else is interpreter here You, Your Self.' The competition is between what you are today and what you want to become in this life.

This is a very good observation. I firmly agree, it is truly the competition of what we are yesterday, today, and tomorrow. With the help of SaiMaster, we should be better than yesterday and strive for a better 'tomorrow' than 'today'........."dinadinaabhivriddi" in our spirituality.

Glory to Sri Sai Master!

Jai Sai Master!

PS: I also truly believe that the above quote by UttamPallavi garu applies to our materialistic lives too. We need to compete with ourselves in every step of the way to become "Ideally Better".
Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: Asterias on March 23, 2009, 01:59:24 PM
Jai Sai Master !

Dear Saibandhus

This is what Babugaru told on a discussion regarding goal (this is my interpretation, if any fallacies - they are mine)

Babugaru said that one must be honest, have clarity and decide a goal. These three things, honesty, clarity and goal, form a vicious circle. Without honesty and clarity, we cant be genuine towards a goal. Once a goal is decided, to attain it, we would have to increase our honesty and clarity towards it, for no goal can be achieved without 100% honesty and clarity. With better honesty and clarity, a better goal will be found. In this way, one leads to another and a feedback chain is formed.

What can we understand from this? What is our goal of life?

In Edi Nizam also, Mastergaru a bit about how to attain something (the 3 points in the intro)

Dear saiuttampallavi garu,

Quote
We can only work. In this stage of our lives, we can only work. What we understand is yes, that is good. Do it as worship.
We can only chant God's name. Fine. Let us do it as true worship.
We can only do Paarayana . Fine. Let us only do Paarayanas as sincerely as possible.
How ??

Doing work as worship, what is meant by that? Suppose I again give you the same alternatives that were posted earlier in the thread, would you do a job which gives more time for Parayana or one which gives less time? If work is worship, you need not bother !

Chanting lord's name, idlly will not help us at all. But when you say "sincerely", you hit the nail.

How can one have sincerity ?

Quote
We can only work. In this stage of our lives, we can only work.

Good. Now we know how we can do work with more zeal, compassion and devotion. Very interestingly we find ourselves more successful this time. We say Jai Sai Master for the opportunity given to us with valuable practices and more importantly for making us understand them with His teachings.
Again how ???

Jai Sai Master !



Jai Sai Master !
Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: Saiuttampallavi on March 23, 2009, 11:07:16 PM
Jai Sai Master.

Dear Asterias garu, other Sai Bandhus,

Thanks for asking. We have put the same question to ourselves yesterday.

After we shared our thoughts we felt some where we are missing a point about paarayana related to work.

Key point is our limitations and where we stand at the present moment. Thanks Asterias garu for making it more clear to us.

We have expressed our thoughts in the context of Swayam gari question about choosing the best option when we are offered with two projects - one demanding more of our time and other less time. Suppose we have done our part of thinking properly and takes first project which demands more of our time, then how we can we perceive the new project work and how can we mould ourselves.

We thought about the way we have expressed. This is pointing to

Work or Utter Lord's Name or Study Holy Books.

But this is not the meaning we would like to share. We realize this is wrong way of understanding Baba's sayings. They exist together. We took some time and re read Master gari explanation.

We referred Master gari explanation for Baba's saying '"Work ,  Utter Lord's Name , Study Holy Books'. While referring we found similarity between three aspects.

When the body is kept in useful work, the mind would calm down and it will be easier to preoccupy it with what is valuable,viz.,sacred study and remembering the Lord. Besides in work, one can easily overcome his chronic self-consiousness, which is Karma Yoga.

The two other phrases, above all, preclude us of vain chattering and gossip, for nothing spoils a man as much as gossip does. as one goes on remembering the Lord by uttering his name, the whole of one's physical activity becomes a practice of obedience to divine order, Which is Bhakthi yoga.

The study of holy text strengthens our right understanding and attitude to life and to God. It restores right sense of values and it makes the mind attuned to the Sadguru, which is Guru Bhakthi, Which utlimately results in Wisdom. This is Jnana yoga.

What we are trying to express is in three of the practices, there is common principle ie 'Our mind getting calm down'. If we try maintaining silence for a day or two to achieve this objective, it may work perfect for only those days but doesnt last long. This is our personal experience too. We are currently thinking of this relation between these three aspects.

Quote
Doing work as worship, what is meant by that?

We obviously have chosen work as basis for leading our lives. We are not sincere in faith. We admit we have many limitations. At the same time we have learnt the core objective of our life is to gain Sathvika Bhavalu. We spend half of our life time in work ie at work place. We have to bring in all these positive characters even at the work place. This can be achieved only if we treat our work as worship.

When we are hired, we are given with certain principles like do these tasks, meet the expected results, maintain the privacy of the company data etc.. For example, let us take a scenario, we are working in Baba Temple as an administrator assistant and are given with certain tasks.

We start the day one with some basic foundation (faith):

1. I got this opportunity with the help of Baba,Master garu.
2. It must be the best for me.
3. Every day I am sure Baba, Master garu makes me to do this job as per Their expectations.
4. As I am in Baba Temple, I can start the day with Paarayana which gives me needed strength to attend to my work.

In all these cases, what we find is Baba, Master gari presence with us.

Now for few days, I am asked to complete huge pending work as Guru purnima is coming up. This makes me to miss Paarayana and attending Arati in the morning. How can I perceive my work now? Everything is happening in the presence of Baba, Master garu in our thoughts. If I say I must do Paarayana, that means I am neglecting the same work given for the purpose of handling future objective of managing Guru Purnima.

These are the thoughts from the current state with our limitations. We can also think with sincerity and wake up couple of hours earlier and do Paarayana which will definitely make us complete the toughest task with ease. Our practice has not reached this stage yet. :( 

Let us come back to wherever we are ie to our city. Let us treat the work place also as Shirdi, Ongole temple and try our best not to gossip, not to deviate ourselves to anything else but concentrate in our work. When we come back home, our minds should be able to treat our home also as Shirdi or Ongole Temple.

We would like to share one of our experiences which is the basis for sharing our thoughts above.

We went to Shirdi few months back with an assumption that we can only get darshan for one arati as we stayed there on Thursday. But what we did is we kept on doing Paarayana, chanting Sai namam and followed the principles mentioned in Master gari Books and got an opportunity of many darshans of Baba. The last time we went for Baba darshan, literally we both felt sad as we got a feeling of leaving Baba and going away. We questioned ourselves why we dont perceive with the same devotion at our work place in our home town. Later on when we thought with the help of Master gari Books, we realized Baba always exists inside our thoughts. Our duty is to make our thoughts as pure as possible so that we stay with Baba, Master garu, Amma garu.

Quote
Suppose I again give you the same alternatives that were posted earlier in the thread, would you do a job which gives more time for Parayana or one which gives less time? If work is worship, you need not bother !

Personally we choose the second option of having more time for our paarayana.

Hope we clarified about the devotion part related to work.

Jai Sai Master.
Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: Ananth on March 24, 2009, 12:16:31 AM
Jai Sai Master, Babu garu..
Jai Sai Master, Sai Bandhus..

UttamPallavi garu & Asterias garu, Jai Sai Master!!

Just wanted to tell you how happy I am, because Baba always shows us some ways as long as we keep our eyes on the perspective. Just before reading UttamPallavi gari post, I Was typing my doubts about the three words specified by Asterias garu, namely "Honesty, Clarity, Goal".

I was about to post them and I got the red words saying somebody already posted. So, I put my post on hold and read UttamPallavi's message, and it gave me some answers.

Quote
We went to Shirdi few months back with an assumption that we can only get darshan for one arati as we stayed there on Thursday. But what we did is we kept on doing Paarayana, chanting Sai namam and followed the principles mentioned in Master gari Books and got an opportunity of many darshans of Baba. The last time we went for Baba darshan, literally we both felt sad as we got a feeling of leaving Baba and going away. We questioned ourselves why we dont perceive with the same devotion at our work place in our home town. Later on when we thought with the help of Master gari Books, we realized Baba always exists inside our thoughts. Our duty is to make our thoughts as pure as possible so that we stay with Baba, Master garu, Amma garu.

There are two aspects that I observed here. One can be applied to those three words of circle. And another can be directly attributed to Master's teachings.

1) The three words. Clarity is to know the existence of a discrepancy in our bhakti at various places. Namely, more bhakti at Shirdi and less at our homes and at work place. Honesty is to acknowledge that it is infact a discrepancy. Goal is to improve ourselves by increasing our bhakti at all places irrespective of its significance.

I was actually going to put forth my doubt of the order in which the three words can be applied. My thought was Clarity, Honesty, and Goal in that order. But also, my question was how to develop that clarity?????

2) UttamPallavi garu, I Am sure you already know this but still I wanted to bring to your notice. Masster garu already wrote in Sri Guru Charitra. The devotee, Tantuka asks Sri Guru why HE took him to Srisailam while HIS holy padukas itself was Srisailam for the devotee. So, Sri Guru explains that "Sthana Mahima" is important to develop bhakti and to realize the God. Maybe that's why we feel more pure and more in tune with Baba when we go to Shirdi or to a Sai Temple as compared to our homes and work places. With more practise and with more discipline, over time, perhaps, we will develop that with the help of Master.

Asterias garu, I am happy to tell you that these two points that I observed will help me a long way to realize many things in the next couple of months. I was feeling lost and I was praying for Master to show me a way. He showed me the way in the form of "ASTERIAS & UTTAMPALLAVI".

Best Regards!
Jai Sai Master!
Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: Asterias on March 24, 2009, 06:09:37 AM
Jai Sai Master!

Any hint of "usefulness" in my posts, is only due to Babugaru :)

Jai Sai Master !
Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: Swayam on March 24, 2009, 02:17:05 PM
Jai Sai Master, Babu garu..
Jai Sai Master, Sai Bandhus..

UttamPallavi garu & Asterias garu, Jai Sai Master!!

Just wanted to tell you how happy I am, because Baba always shows us some ways as long as we keep our eyes on the perspective. Just before reading UttamPallavi gari post, I Was typing my doubts about the three words specified by Asterias garu, namely "Honesty, Clarity, Goal".


This is what I mentioned in my previous posts, that is when you exactly feel the same "feeling" or "undestanding" with which saiuttampallavi garu posted, you will feel happy.Thats what I meant
when I said "resonating" with the feeling of what Sai Master garu has mentioned in HIS books.

Quote
We went to Shirdi few months back with an assumption that we can only get darshan for one arati as we stayed there on Thursday. But what we did is we kept on doing Paarayana, chanting Sai namam and followed the principles mentioned in Master gari Books and got an opportunity of many darshans of Baba. The last time we went for Baba darshan, literally we both felt sad as we got a feeling of leaving Baba and going away. We questioned ourselves why we dont perceive with the same devotion at our work place in our home town. Later on when we thought with the help of Master gari Books, we realized Baba always exists inside our thoughts. Our duty is to make our thoughts as pure as possible so that we stay with Baba, Master garu, Amma garu.

There are two aspects that I observed here. One can be applied to those three words of circle. And another can be directly attributed to Master's teachings.

1) The three words. Clarity is to know the existence of a discrepancy in our bhakti at various places. Namely, more bhakti at Shirdi and less at our homes and at work place. Honesty is to acknowledge that it is infact a discrepancy. Goal is to improve ourselves by increasing our bhakti at all places irrespective of its significance.


You have summarized it in a very nice way.
Thanks Asterias garu, Ananth garu and SaiUttamPallavi garu

Jai Sai Master!
Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: Saiuttampallavi on March 24, 2009, 07:51:05 PM
Jai Sai Master.

Dear Sai Bandhus,

Currently our immediate and constant goal appears to be this which can be agreed by all:

Quote
Our duty is to make our thoughts as pure as possible with sathvika bhavalu so that we stay with Baba, Master garu, Amma garu.

This is where we have started actually. We do not have clarity yet how to achieve it.

Is it that easy to achieve?  Can we achieve this just with our own intellect whatever we have? Where , how and what can we develop or remove something. Yes, We have come back to Asterias gari question again.

"How" is still remaining. This thread is all about our application. That means unless until we are honest, we can not move forward. We (Uttam,Pallavi) are still not in a position to say that yes this is the goal of our lives and we are truly sincere towards achieving this.

Let us share what we have learnt so far from Master gari Teachings. Let us share what we have learnt for the last three years from our participation here in Satsang. Are we moving ahead or are we remaining where we are or are we going backward in our attitudes.

As this is all about application, let us go slowly but firmly by holding feet of Master gari Teachings. Please throw light from your thoughts for any change of direction to the discussion.

Jai Sai Master.
Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: Asterias on March 24, 2009, 08:49:31 PM
Jai Sai Master !
Quote
Are we moving ahead or are we remaining where we are or are we going backward in our attitudes.

AM 100% sure that no one can remove "where they are". In spirituality either you go up or down :)

Jai Sai Master !
Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: Dwarakanath on March 27, 2009, 07:10:11 PM
Jai Sai Master!

Still the question pertains. Why?? Why does one want something?? Why does one want even spirituality??

I mean, I know that spirituality is 'what we want' personified. But, as we see it, SPIRITUAL PRACTICE, that which we are supposed to DO, isnt very tasty.. :p

why??

The answer lies in something deep within ourselves. The same part from which our 'weaknesses' stem, that same depth is what makes us want 'improvement'. (And most of us get caught in things both material and spiritual thinking that they provide improvement.. without thinking how they do it or whether they do it or not).

see, what is improvement? who wants to improve?? 

People talked of 'not having weakness' or 'removing weaknesses' or 'staying pure' or what ever. what do we mean by that actually?? Whats the point?? I have x weakness. I dont have that x weakness now. Am I 'improved'?? Or have I just created a new weakness which is 'I dont have that weakness'??

Let me not confuse, I pray to the Master.

See, most of the people (including me) have come into a new 'path' with Master. Some others thought so about 'communism' or 'socialism' or some other 'ism' or 'system' or 'path' or 'guru'. You know the idiotic thing about the whole thing? That just means, I have entered a new 'world view' and added a tag of 'devotee of Master' to my own self-image, through which i can freshly project my old set of ideas and values and weaknesses!! That is, I used to have jealousy, now I have jealousy with my fellow Satsangam people. I used to have 'x' weakness, now I have the same thing under the garb of some 'system' or 'ism'!! One can see this in so many places (almost all of them), whether spiritual, social, political, academic, etc. The guy who was jealous in class turns out to be jealous in office, at home, at the party, etc! May be not so blatantly, but it surely lurks! Similarly, anger, frustration, greed, lust, etc. etc. They are all still there, arnt they?? And is there improvement? If yes, what? If no, then what??

Why in Baba's name, do we want to remove them? What do we mean by 'removing' them?? What do we mean by 'being pure'?

I am saying all this not to detract people or to disappoint them, but i think its a matter of clarity. I dont want us to be confused by 'being jealous' and 'apparently jealous'. There is a lot of difference. 'Being pure' and 'apparently pure'.

There are two sides of this.

1. Most of us get a bad thought, then try and wriggle out of it by remembering Master. Eg. I get angry, but remember Baba and control myself.
2. We also get a bad thought, then justify it.

Either way, we surely take care that it doesnt show. That is, I dont truely like a person. What do I do? I hide it with manners. I get a bad thought about a girl. What do i do? i hide it and pretend to be good!!!! Is this pretension 'being pure'? Or 'I got angry, but remembered Baba and controlled myself' being good? Or is it good only if we never get angry at all? See what im talking about?

So, we have to look at the root of the problem. Why do we get the so-called 'bad thoughts', anger, jealousy, etc.?

No, I dont want the answer "because we dont see Baba everywhere." Because thats so cliche. :p

Honestly, why? no. not that answer " because we feel seperate ". That is too bookish. To even write this we have to feel seperate. :)

Sincerely think. The answer lies in thinking right. Are we bad? Are we good? or should the questions be 'Are we apparently bad or good?'

Because, otherwise, we just shove the problem around and not solve it. We say, 'because we are weak' or 'because we dont remember Baba', etc. Then one asks, how can I do that? and a flurry of the same pattern of questions and answers follows, and then we end up at the same question.

The break comes when we 'understand' that we are neither good nor bad. Think. Is there some thing to improve? If so what? Who should improve?



Jai Sai Master!!

Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: Asterias on March 29, 2009, 05:31:55 PM
Jai Sai Master !

Dear Saibandhus,

Its a pleasant surprise that Babugaru has taken interest in this thread. I just hope that we can make best use of this :)

Babugaru has asked all of us to read pages 240 - 248 from the book Pravachanalu.

I am posting the links here to the relevant chapters from the book. Please go through it carefully and lets continue the discussion based on that.

http://www.divyajanani.org/saibharadwaja/books/saimasterPravachanamulu/Pravachanamulu_Chapter22.html
http://www.divyajanani.org/saibharadwaja/books/saimasterPravachanamulu/Pravachanamulu_Chapter23.html
Jai Sai Master
Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: Swarup on April 03, 2009, 10:41:37 PM

The break comes when we 'understand' that we are neither good nor bad. Think. Is there some thing to improve? If so what? Who should improve?


and the answer is..... ???? !!!!!! ....... NAAN YAAR    ?????   !!!!!! when I thought on similar things untill a awhile, I ended in a stage where-in the thinking itself stopped........
and yeah more recently to keep my job I stopped thinking on this :-( and again who is keeping the job, who is thinking will keep the job..... no answer to all those............ back to square one..........
Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: Swayam on April 06, 2009, 11:04:37 PM
Jai Sai Master!

Afte reading those chapters Iam getting lots of new questions and these are pushing aside the main questions triggered by Babu garu.

I wanted to insert an image as usual I could not still figure out how to add an image here, inspite of using
Insert image option.Anyways leaving that aside, I will try to post my questions in a different way

(1) Master garu says(page 233 last para) that even to pray GOD we need good karma and after saying this
     he says we are  back, to square one.So Iam lost at this juncture.Though Master garu clearly brings out
     Sadguru can change Karma and is better to take his shelter instead of following Karma siddantam. But
     since good karma is needed to pray GOD, now Iam confused to what I should give importance,
     Karma or Sadguru Krupa ???.

(2) In page 235, Master garu says "Visvasam kalagalante appudappudanna ANUBHAVAM kalugutundaali".
     What does Master garu means by "AUBHAVAM" here ?

(3) Also Master garu in one of his articles in Sai Baba Magazine says that "If some one does anytihng bad
     to you, think that it is happening because of RUNANUBHANDHAM".
     Isn't it that this RUNANUBHANDHAM is coming into picture due to Karma that we do.If yes,
     Iam back to square one and the question of (1) above comes up again

Last but not least Iam yet to link/map Babu gari questions to chapter 22 and 23

Jai Sai Master!

Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: Swarup on April 06, 2009, 11:55:19 PM
Dear Swayam garu,

You kept your questions out well .... but I was a bit confused with your question. seeking clarification, So, do you mean, which one gets importance in spiritual path... karma or krupa?? or did you mean, which one comes first..(karma or krupa) ?? or did you mean which one should we prioritize from our side... ??? or did you mean something else, that I missed?? or is it just a viscious cycle one helps other ???

Om sai ram
Title: !
Post by: Swayam on April 07, 2009, 10:29:31 AM
Dear Swayam garu,

You kept your questions out well .... but I was a bit confused with your question. seeking clarification, So, do you mean, which one gets importance in spiritual path... karma or krupa?? or did you mean, which one comes first..(karma or krupa) ?? or did you mean which one should we prioritize from our side... ??? or did you mean something else, that I missed?? or is it just a viscious cycle one helps other ???

Om sai ram

Swarup garu,Thank you.

What I meant is to which one I should give importance or priority.
Though Master garu clearly says that we should give importance to Sadguru Krupa, he also
says that Karma influences Sadguru krupa(praardhana) and so my question.I think this is something like
chicken & egg problem!.

Jai Sai Master!
Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: Dwarakanath on April 07, 2009, 11:01:55 AM
Jai Sai Master!

Swayam,

In that chapter, towards the end, Master says that it doesnt much matter which concept we stick on to. But what is important is that we stick on to any one of those completely. 'nirdushtamga'. Eitherway, the result is the same!

Read it carefully. Rather than looking for answers in each line of that chapter, look for the logical flow towards the conclusion.


Swarupgaru,

Its wonderful to hear that when you started thinking on it, you were going 'blank'! Awesome!
However, I am not going directly to "Naan Yar" (Who am I) stage. I am just trying to logically breakdown things that keep us away from looking at things properly, things like goal, Guru, God, life, etc.


When we look at it, we notice that our day is full of fluctuations. Sometimes we are confident. Sometimes we are not. Sometimes we are agitated while sometimes we are calm and reserved. Why? Because in each of these 'mood swings' life appears differently to us, so does its goal. Why? What is changing in all these? What is constant? Can we look at what changes and see if we need to really set our goals as to embrace these changes in our attitudes and moods? Or should we look at the constancy (no, not that 'I am that I am' part yet.. :p) behind these and set our goals so as to keep at it? Or should we bother about all this at all?


Most of the times,
when we talk of life or goal or what ever, depending on our mood swings and attitudes, different things come to mind. That is why one cant clearly forumulate not stick on to the same goals in life.

Also, we are what we think of at thet time. That is, when we are in our office, we dont remember that we are the owner of the tv that we have at home. That 'I am the owner of that TV' part is not part of us then!! Which means, our own picture of us is always changing! Which one are we? The one that says "I need Baba" or that one that says "I can and should take care of myself irrespective of Baba"?

This is exteremely important to think. Because our goal depends on these.

Jai Sai Master!!
Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: Swayam on April 07, 2009, 12:40:04 PM
Jai Sai Master!

Swayam,

In that chapter, towards the end, Master says that it doesnt much matter which concept we stick on to. But what is important is that we stick on to any one of those completely. 'nirdushtamga'. Eitherway, the result is the same!

Read it carefully. Rather than looking for answers in each line of that chapter, look for the logical flow towards the conclusion.


Thank you for the clarification

Jai Sai Master
Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: Swarup on April 08, 2009, 12:15:25 AM

Also, we are what we think of at thet time. That is, when we are in our office, we dont remember that we are the owner of the tv that we have at home. That 'I am the owner of that TV' part is not part of us then!! Which means, our own picture of us is always changing! Which one are we? The one that says "I need Baba" or that one that says "I can and should take care of myself irrespective of Baba"?

This is exteremely important to think. Because our goal depends on these.


Very important point. But shouldn't we be handling this changing "perception" of ourselves and set a goal. For example, I have a goal as a son, brother, husband, father, employee and employer. At the same time short-term, long-term, longer-long-term (for lack of better word). Like say at work place we forget son,,, etc thing and remember employer/employee as that would be the purpose... Ofcourse why we want that situation would again go back to being a good in our other role. So, in nutshell shouldn't we be handling all these at the same time and set a goal (depending on individual capacity and limit of course).....

Om sai ram
Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: Asterias on April 09, 2009, 05:46:34 AM
Jai Sai Master !

I think Babugaru wants to say that is, with changing role, the goal too changes. However, should it not be that the main goal decide what we should do in each role ?

Jai Sai Master !
Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: Swarup on April 11, 2009, 01:24:04 AM
Jai Sai Master !

I think Babugaru wants to say that is, with changing role, the goal too changes. However, should it not be that the main goal decide what we should do in each role ?

Jai Sai Master !

??? did you mean the other way..... each role should not decide the main goal .....


Om sai ram
Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: Asterias on April 11, 2009, 05:46:34 AM
Jai Sai Master !

Each role does help fulfill the main goal, but it cant be that each role brings with it a yet another main goal !

Jai Sai Master !
Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: Swarup on April 14, 2009, 04:27:28 AM
Thanks asterias garu, Now I see the point.

Om sai ram
Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: Dwarakanath on April 20, 2009, 11:51:23 AM
Jai Sai Master!

Hmm..

no particular replies to the questions I asked. :/ well, let me get on with it.

Every time our mood changes, the things that change are - our self image and our world image. That is, what we think about ourselves changes, and so does our thoughts on the world.

For example, till we are reminded, one doesnt remember a distant relative. Then all the past experiences with that person arise, opinions regarding that person arise and so on. If there is any thing we have to do about that person, it becomes part of our 'world image'. That is, it becomes part of our world THEN. Until then, even though the distant relative exists (any object for that matter), till it is reminded to us, it doesnt become a part of our 'world'. That is, it doesnt become a part of our worries, duties or responsiblities or aspirations. But once that happens, the mind takes on a new role. Ones opinion of one also changes. That is, till I am not reminded of that relative, me being a cousin to that person doesnt stick in my own 'opinion' of myself. But once such a person is remembered, the tag ' i am his cousin ' gets added to our own opinion of ourselves. Similarly, a lot other such tags are lost.

This is the key mechanism that happens. This is the reason why a single thought pattern (like Baba) doesnt easily stick in our heads. And so, as these fluctuations occur, they effect the emotional and rational responses that happen in our minds, which result in mood swings and personality swings. These fluctuations are the reason why our goal keeps changing! (our own opinion of the goal that is).

The very meaning of life changes. Eg. Till we are partying, the poverty of the world doesnt become part of our world image, and the sense of brotherhood doesnt become part of our self image. But when one is reminded of those and gets really touched by it, partying gets out of our world image and similarly our self image also changes, albeit temporarily. This is the secret of all vices and addictions and even recreations.

So far clear? I see another long long thread with lots of typing ahead. ALL ABOARD!!!

Jai Sai Master!!
Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: Asterias on April 21, 2009, 06:32:16 PM
Jai Sai Master !
Quote
I see another long long thread with lots of typing ahead. ALL ABOARD!!!

Eagerly waiting for the ship to start :)

Jai Sai Master !
Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: Ananth on April 21, 2009, 10:29:45 PM
Jai Sai Master, Babu garu..
Jai Sai Master, Sai Bandhus..

Babu garu, clear so far. As Asterias specified, waiting for the Ship to take us to places for knowledge.

Regards!

Jai Sai Master!
Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: Swarup on April 22, 2009, 01:46:40 AM
This is the reason why a single thought pattern (like Baba) doesnt easily stick in our heads. And so, as these fluctuations occur, they effect the emotional and rational responses that happen in our minds, which result in mood swings and personality swings. These fluctuations are the reason why our goal keeps changing! (our own opinion of the goal that is).


BTW, which goal are we referring to.... short-term, long-term, longer-long term spiritual or physical... or is it all of them??
So is it that "emotional and rational response in mind" part of getting the goal.... or deciding on what the goal should be.....
Can you please expand on the last paragraph... "secret for vices...." thing.....
I seem to have blissfuly lost a little bit.......


Om sai ram
Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: Saiuttampallavi on April 22, 2009, 05:57:18 AM
Jai Sai Master.

We are in the Ship waiting to take a fresh breath of life. :)

Jai Sai Master.
Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: Swayam on April 23, 2009, 02:25:58 PM
Jai Sai Master!

Yes..lets go ... Master garu be with us

Jai Sai Master!
Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: Dwarakanath on April 24, 2009, 12:24:49 PM
Jai Sai Master!

Post coming up in a few minutes...

Jai Sai Master!!
Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: Dwarakanath on April 24, 2009, 03:36:19 PM
Jai Sai Master!

Usually, because we have this tendency of creating images, of ourselves, of the world and so on, we(most people) apply the same method to spirituality. Its another set of images. And since its just another set of images, it doesnt really stick-on. It creates the same cycle of "I dont have something - I want something". Right?

So what to do?

Jai Sai Master!!
Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: Dwarakanath on April 24, 2009, 03:41:31 PM
This is the reason why a single thought pattern (like Baba) doesnt easily stick in our heads. And so, as these fluctuations occur, they effect the emotional and rational responses that happen in our minds, which result in mood swings and personality swings. These fluctuations are the reason why our goal keeps changing! (our own opinion of the goal that is).


BTW, which goal are we referring to.... short-term, long-term, longer-long term spiritual or physical... or is it all of them??
So is it that "emotional and rational response in mind" part of getting the goal.... or deciding on what the goal should be.....
Can you please expand on the last paragraph... "secret for vices...." thing.....
I seem to have blissfuly lost a little bit.......


Om sai ram

Jai Sai Master!

Swarupgaru, will come on to that in a few posts.

Jai Sai Master!!
Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: vasu on April 24, 2009, 07:35:47 PM
Jai Sai Master!
Sri Alimelu Mangamma Sahita Bharadwaj Maharaj ki Jai.

Ananth garu,
Dear Sai Bandhus,
Babu garu,

Nice topic. I tried quickly read to make sure I get in the flow (but I am not sure). Here's my take as of now on this topic.
The purpose of life:
1) To know everything we have to know
2) To do everything we have to do
Then
To reach the point where we don't have to know anything and do anything. Isn't that great (especially not having to do anything  ;D ;D).


Jai Sai Master.
Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: Saiuttampallavi on April 26, 2009, 08:34:40 PM
Jai Sai Master.

Dear Sai Bandhus,

We bow to Sri Sai Master.

Master garu teaches us a different meaning every time we do Paarayana of 'Sri Sai Leelamrutam' . We believe one of the factors that is helping us most is as we are given with an opportunity to think with our participation here in Satsang.

We share our thoughts related to 'Gamyam' / 'Goal of Life' which we understood while reading about Sri Dayal Sharan's Leela in 'Sri Sai Leelamrutam':

http://www.divyajanani.org/saibharadwaja/books/readsl.asp?PNo=SL0128

First step:
Sri Dayal Sharan has completed Paarayana of 'Sri Sai Leelamrutam' and 'Sri Guru Charitra'.

Objective / goal is to take Sri Ayyappa's darshan.

Second step:
As the path to goal is tough, as a 49year old man he got tired.

Third Step:
In helplessness, he prayed Baba.

Fourth Step:
In few moments, An Old Man with a stick and wearing Rubber slippers(cheppulu) came and picked up Sri Dayal Sharan's hand and firmly put in his armpit and said

"No need to worry. Walk slowly  with me!".

Immediately all his tiredness is vanished.

Fifth Step:
He thought "Who is He? He came with slippers on to the hill."

Because of heavy rush, many devotees are falling down. All are walking with high difficulty.
Then

Sixth Step:
In half an hour, They reached a place with lights. As soon as they reach the light, his hand has slipped from the Old Man's.

Seventh Step:
He wanted to thank The Old Man but could not find Him anywhere.

Eighth Step:
He searched for the Old Man by looking at the feet of Devotees fot the slippers. But no one was there with The slippers.

Ninth Step:
Baba has taken him to the Destination ( Gamyam ) in the form of The Old Man.

Jai Sai Master.

What we see in this Leela is :

A Preparedness with Paarayana.
A Swadharma ( Work )
A Helplessness > Remember Baba by praying.
A Doubt , A Curiosity.
A Protection - Baba taking the devotee till the place where Light exists and can help himself.
A Thankfulness.
A Search for the lost Help, Support.
A Realization.
A Firm Faith which remains for ever.

This leela reminds us of the Leela of Sri SayamDeva in Sri Guru Charitra where Sri Nrisimha Saraswati Swamy tests Sri Sayamadeva.

After reading Babu gari words, we have been contemplating on

1. People talked of 'not having weakness' or 'removing weaknesses' or 'staying pure' or what ever. what do we mean by that actually??
Whats the point?? I have x weakness. I dont have that x weakness now. Am I 'improved'?? Or have I just created a new weakness which is 'I dont have that weakness'??

2. There is a lot of difference. 'Being pure' and 'apparently pure'.

3.So, we have to look at the root of the problem. Why do we get the so-called 'bad thoughts', anger, jealousy, etc.?

This is what is in our thoughts for the last one month of thinking.

1.We are what we are.
2.We realize that we have good, bad samskaras when we do Paarayana. We try to encourage / correct them.
3.We realize being in Satsanga helps us to come out of these bad samskaras more easily.
4.Our minds fill with Service, Baba, Mastergaru, Ammagaru, Guru Kutumbam. The moment we are not in this stage, we fall.
5.Yes we do fall now and then, but remembering Baba, Mastergaru, Ammagaru, Guru Kutumbam again in the form of Paarayana, Dhyanam, They bring us back,They support us.
6.With this practice, we start becoming more Silent with great Satisfaction with more of attention to Service where we dont see any characteristics good, bad, sorrow, happiness.
7.Still we may not see Baba in all but the feeling of "OnlyIam" vanishes taking us to a more Satisfied and Surrendered state.

Babu garu, the more we think, we started from "we have some samskaras" and "how to encourage/correct with the help of Paarayana" not from "we dont have any samskaras". Still we want to become something pure. Pure in our opinion is what Baba, Mastergaru, Ammagaru mentioned in the form of Paarayana. Are we in the right thinking Babu garu? Please correct us.

Jai Sai Master.
Jai Sai Master.
Jai Sai Master.
Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: Ananth on April 26, 2009, 09:39:54 PM
Jai Sai Master, Babu garu..
Jai Sai Master, Sai Bandhus..

Some pearls of wisdom from Babu garu for all of us. The "Tshirt" that he is refering to is about a dream that I got a couple of weeks back. I got a dream that Divyajanani Amma garu gave me a Tshirt  as prasadam. On it was written "Jai Sai Master"

So, I mentioned that to Babu garu, and also some insecurities and doubts about "Goal of life".

But this whole message is for all of us in SaiMaster Forums. So, Let's continue to discuss. May Master bless us fully to understand it and atleast put 1% of it to practise.

Jai Sai Master!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


When one of us, say me, says "I want to improve", it springs from the fact that we are dissatisfied with what we are. And so, the whole rigmarole of life starts. "Unna daanito Asantripti - leni denikosamo tapana". Not just about our possessions, status, and all that, its also about what we think of ourselves and of the world.

Is it good to be so? It seems. Because it galvanizes one towards improvement. Or so it seems. But again, that sense of improvement, when not accurate, will not satisfy us, once we are there, just like anything else in life. Usually it is so with most of us.

Our aspirations of seva, prayer, pracharam and so on, spring from the same root. And usually most people's spirituality falls into the same trap of 'unnadaanito asantripti...' just like their materiality and so, stops yeilding results.

Master says, walking is not just landing on a new piece of ground, but also leaving the old. And so is the case with improvement and everything else. The moment we say "I am not wealthy enough", the thought of becoming more wealthy springs up. And once we are wealthy (as we thought), we find that we are not satisfied. What happens? Why?

As I see it now, the reason is that when we said "I am not wealthy in the first place", we are dissatisfied. Later on wealth came, but that dissatisfaction remained. Where is it? How does it sustain? It sustains in this very statemnt "I am not wealthy". It sustains in our understanding of "I", in our understanding of "Wealthy". 

Similarly, when we say "I am not correct enough" or "spiritual enough", it lingers. But because it makes one seek improvement, it is tolerated with, as long as it is about the right path. However, most people get stuck there itself.



One needs to understand that what ever is, is perfect. We are perfect as we are. Only that we dont realize it, because of our own opinions of ourselves and so the rigmarole. The process is about realizing, not shunning, nor running away, nor hiding nor fighting. Its about staying put!!

The awareness that Baba is looking after us, or any other thing belonging to any other path of spirituality, is to make sure that this spirituality doesnt become a part of that rigmarole of ' unnadaanito asantripti...' Just remember that Baba is looking after all of us. And that our trying for something else is but another form of that rigmarole, either in the garb of spirituality or something else.


It is evident in many people's attitude towards life. Since most people's spirituality is part of that same rigmarole, the same afflictions appear in spirituality too. People competing with each other, jealousies, ambitions and so on. When the rigmarole is about another thing, say materialism, there is anger, hatred, jealousy, ambition and so on.. And once people enter the path, so to say, what happens in most cases is that the same stuff repeats under the garb of spirituality. There will be anger towards other methods, regimentation, setting up heirarchies in spirituality, jealousies, ambitions, competition and comparison with others, etc. Even people's limited opinions of "Baba" are caused by and perpetuate the same symptoms. The whole rot of false Guruism is because of this.

If one has to stay away from all that, if one has to 'wear that tshirt', one needs to understand this totally. Is one's spirituality another escape from one's own sense of inadequecy? It shouldnt be. Otherwise, its part of the same rigmarole. It should spring from self confidence. From courage. Courage to remember that its all the same, whether pleasure or pain, whether praise or repremand. Courage to remain without running away from even one's own sense of inadequecy and questioning it.

If we say we are inadequate, before we start running towards the so called improvement, one needs to stand up and say, what do we mean? If everything is illusory (the false ego and so on, except Truth), then inadequecy must also be illusory!! Besides, one does want to improve. But improve in what? Into what? Another such false opinion?? WIth the help of false opinions based on illusion??

Think this out carefully.

To wear that tshirt is to be free. Free from respect, whether self-respect or respecting others. whether respecting one's own opinions or of others. To be free from values. Values of truth and untruth, good and bad. Only the sense of existance remains and one doesnt run away from it nor add a value of adequecy or inadequecy to it. One's sense of duty remains. Sense of action, without a desire to be someone else. Rather the desire is to be one-self completely. Prayer becomes true. It doesnt belong to the category of praying to opinions and illusions. Its a prayer to truth. Being aware of it in all garbs. Wanting nothing special but to be oneself truely, completely. Not getting lost in illusions, but to be aware of one-self (not the omniscient self even, but just atleast the limited self). Ones own actions being full of conviction and vigour, full of awareness and willfullness. No escaping. No fighting. Just doing what needs to be done. Doing it consciously, willfully and truthfully. And this gives the power to accept the results, whether they seem pleasurable or painful. And praying to the truth that makes it all so presice. Not from fear, not from self-regret, but out of self confidence and thankfulness.

To wear that Tshirt, two things are necessary and no more. Courage and Understanding. However feeble they seem to be present in one. Courage not to escape. Understanding to understand that one need not escape.

After all, who has inadequecies? The body? The thoughts? The situations? The feelings?

Feelings are what they are. Heat, cold, etc. Thoughts come and go without our control. Only that we attatch ourselves and get involved with them. So are the situations and so is the body. When one finds that these are inadequate, one starts to run and escape. And since one's escape is based on one's identification with those, that escape leads towards another identification with those. One starts to say, if my thoughts are better, if my situations are better and if my body is better and so on. But the point of it is that none of them are me. They come and go. They are there. They are not 'me'. From opinions to understanding, nothing is me. I am naught. Nothing. So, who needs to improve? Only the body needs to improve with regards to other bodies. Situations need to improve in relation to other situations. Opinions need to improve so that they dont effect us. And thoughts need to improve to lead the body better. And I, being none of those, but a witness to those, help them be so by not attatching with them nor identifying with them. By being a Master of them, not a slave.

One is like the puppeteer. All those are puppets. And with this comes courage. This thought comes and goes. This body comes and goes. But neither of them is I. And so, what ever they have to face, I dont need to. And there you go. Self-confidence. The one who gives us this understanding is not outside. Outside is opinion. Master is another opinion and so is Baba. What gives it is ourselves. We mould it all. The external is only the mirror, whether you call it Baba, Master, Jesus or so on. Karma effects body, thoughts and situations. Not me. I am untouched. None of those!! And so I dont have Karma. Karma comes and goes. I neither attribute good to it nor bad. Its neither good nor bad. Its just my view of it that seems either good or bad. Its only my identification with it that makes it pleasurable or painful. Nothing is mine! Not even my opinion of myself! None of that is me! (Since I dont and cant control or generate or destroy it!)

This detatchment is dispassion. This understanding is vivekam. This attitude is sattvagunam. And this existance is bliss. This surrender is true surrender. This is that Tshirt. Hope you get it soon! The devotion that springs up here is not based on self-disrespect. Not based on one's own opinion of oneself as inferior to another. Only based on the fact that the object of devotion is devoid of any such identifications. Master is such. And everyone is such. But one's opinions differentiate me from Him. And the lack of such is Mukti. The constant sense of duty which helps us to stand and fight, that sense of security and solace, that steadfast determination not to get attatched to falsehood, is devotion.

To achieve this, one needs to look at Master(s) and their teachings without adding to them one's own opinions. Feel them as much as you rationalize them. Not just rationalize and form an image, but feel and understand that it is so! Thats the key!

I know this might confuse you and raise a lot of questions. Which is what wearing that Tshirt is all about. Questions. And answers. And detatchment from both.

Jai Sai Master!
Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: Saiuttampallavi on April 26, 2009, 11:55:42 PM
Jai Sai Master.

Ananth garu,

Our humble Thanks to you for sharing about Babu gari words of wisdom. We need to read word by word and understand the valuable meaning.

Jai Sai Master.
Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: Asterias on April 27, 2009, 12:24:55 AM
Jai Sai Master !

Dear Saiuttampallavi garu

I really loved your analysis of the leela. Somehow I always feel that I see glee in your face whenever you write anything about Mastergaru's work especially Sai Leelamrutham :)

Quote
We realize that we have good, bad samskaras when we do Paarayana. We try to encourage / correct them.

What Babugaru is saying addresses this very thing .. Its not a matter of encouraging or correcting .. if we are what we are and we can heartfully accept it .. well more than half the battle is won. Otherwise this constant judging of what is correct and what is not and therefore the authority for correctness and incorrectness .. and all the other associated things :)

Jai Sai Master !

ps: I think Ananth's post wd have touched most of these things - I am yet to read what Ananthgaru has written ..
Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: Saiuttampallavi on April 27, 2009, 06:20:15 AM
Jai Sai Master.

Yes Asterias garu, it is becoming more clear with Babu gari words. Our pranaams to Babu garu.

We are trying to understand. We need to read again and again till we understand. Hope with Master gari blessings we get more clarity in our practice too.

Jai Sai Master.
Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: Ananth on April 27, 2009, 11:31:34 AM
Jai Sai Master, Babu garu..
Jai Sai Master, Sai Bandhus..

Dear Forum members, my sincere apologies, I missed one point here. That Tshirt in my dream actually belongs to Babu garu. I was thinking "how beautiful it is" and "I wish I could wear it". That's when I got that as prasadam from Amma garu. She also mentioned "nuvvu chaala adrushtavantudivi, adi Babu gari Tshirt".

In retrospect, after Babu gari replies, I coming to know that Tshirt is not that eaily worn.

Regards,
Jai Sai Master!
Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: Dwarakanath on April 27, 2009, 11:35:51 AM
Jai Sai Master!!

Read the first two paragraphs of "Satsanga Mahima" in Sai Leelamritam, I suggest.

http://www.divyajanani.org/saibharadwaja/books/readsl.asp?Pno=SL0151

 Then read "Maanavudu  -  Vyaktigata Samasya" in Matam Enduku.

Then read "Vaadaalo Dongalunnaru..." in Prabothamritam and Pravachanaalu.

------------------------------------------------------

The reason why I wrote this is, as I wrote in the last few posts, I started feeling that by limiting to our own opinions of things, we stop seeing the bigger meaning (true) in everything. In Master's books, in our own minds, etc. And I think that that is the reason for a resistance to complete change in oneself.

When I looked at it this way, it felt as though a missing piece clicked in my head. I saw my own aspirations of what I think is 'good' coming in the way of what I wanted Baba to do, which in turn makes my devotion pale and juiceless in the fact that deep down inside, i think that  i know more than Baba does and so what I think is good should be done. Similarly, I started seeing all the symptoms that we call 'bad' in myself, and in almost everyone.

It felt as if each one of us, as normal human beings, have this fundamental problem of identifying with images, which creates in us a craving for security, for company, for jealousy, for anger and ambition, for domination of others and situations (we call it control), goals and their feebleness, etc.
For eg, we all (all normal human beings) want others to think good of us. We want  to exert our influence over our lives and in turn, over other situations and others lives. We want to be in control (dominant). We 'act' manners, to make it so. But arent these the same qualities that drive a man to become a false guru??  Only that such a 'bad' person has the same qualities in a more public way and that his talents are used to satisfy them, and in us, they lie in us privately. Right?? Then why do we think that such a person alone is bad? Dont we have the symptoms of the same disease?

When one sees it this way, one sees the theives in the house. And going one step further, one sees that one's own weaknesses prompt and prosper these theives. And such weaknesses arise from one's own inadequecies which are there based on one's own opinions (images) of oneself and of the world.

Most of us think that we are rational, intelligent, good, etc. But we also know that most of the times we act irrationally and based on instinct and emotion, without analying the situation (or ourselves) to the full with intellect, and that we 'Act' in a good way while our mind inherently runs in a bad way. (eg. we get angry, we control it! its not that we never get angry! or another example is that we wont let our jealousy or lust to show up in our public image!)

So, this lead me to see that what we think is 'good' or 'bad', most of the times, is all based on these symptoms. And unless one doesnt get rid of these symptoms, one cant get better.

The question still remains.

WHAT TO DO?

what to do?

Jai Sai Master!!
Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: Dwarakanath on April 30, 2009, 02:40:18 AM
Jai Sai Master!!

So....


Jai Sai Master!!
Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: Ananth on April 30, 2009, 12:48:05 PM
Jai Sai Master, Babu garu..
Jai Sai Master, Sai Bandhus..

Babu garu, please forgive me!

Give me one more day, and I will complete those chapters. I will post my thoughts ASAP.

Quote
When I looked at it this way, it felt as though a missing piece clicked in my head. I saw my own aspirations of what I think is 'good' coming in the way of what I wanted Baba to do, which in turn makes my devotion pale and juiceless in the fact that deep down inside, i think that  i know more than Baba does and so what I think is good should be done. Similarly, I started seeing all the symptoms that we call 'bad' in myself, and in almost everyone.

Babu garu and Sai Bandhus, this is an enlightening point as I can completely associate myself with this trait. Many years back, I wanted something and I prayed to Baba earnestly to grant me that wish. Somehow, I kept getting messages that I might not get that. So, I told myself, "Baba, please grant me this wish. If somehow, that wish is not sutable for me, then please make it suitable for me".

I am just getting a faint idea of your teachings.

Also, I asked for "Divine intervention" many times previously which I am coming to think of, in retrospect, how bad it is.

I will complete reading those 3 chapters ASAP (ofcourse understanding part is much more difficult and I pray to Sri Master to give me that knowledge) and then I will put forth my doubts.

With Regards,
Jai Sai Master!
Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: Asterias on May 02, 2009, 11:10:48 AM
Jai Sai Master !

Dear Babugaru,

Please give us some more time before taking this thread further ..

Jai Sai Master !
Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: Swayam on May 22, 2009, 07:20:57 PM
Jai Sai Master!

Yes, need more time, Iam trying to catch up, as till now, with whatever free time I had I was busy with texting Master gari speech.
I need to read many times and also the chapters that Babugaru suggested to understand the babugari's
response.
One thing Iam begining to understand is, may be Iam carrying lot of useless baggage(thoughts and impressions about myself) with me.Please hold on, Iam trying to catch up.

Jai Sai Master!
Title: Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
Post by: Dwarakanath on May 24, 2009, 04:07:37 AM
Jai Sai Master!

So..

we form images and all that i have written... whats it got to do with spirituality? why spirituality? happiness, betterment.... why??? in what sense???

think of this too, along with the earlier posts before we discuss more..

does man need to change? Change for what? into what?

how does a change come about? what makes people change? how can there be 'permanent' betterment? (not the superfluous temporary betterment..) how does that happen?

Change comes when the image of man about himself changes. Think about it. Then discuss as to why spirituality, what is spirituality, how should it come about.. and the more pressing immediate concern, how can one live better.. and what is better and what is the process (theoretically) to reach there.

Jai Sai Master!!