Author Topic: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud  (Read 10371 times)

Saiuttampallavi

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 896
    • View Profile
Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
« Reply #45 on: March 24, 2009, 07:51:05 PM »
Jai Sai Master.

Dear Sai Bandhus,

Currently our immediate and constant goal appears to be this which can be agreed by all:

Quote
Our duty is to make our thoughts as pure as possible with sathvika bhavalu so that we stay with Baba, Master garu, Amma garu.

This is where we have started actually. We do not have clarity yet how to achieve it.

Is it that easy to achieve?  Can we achieve this just with our own intellect whatever we have? Where , how and what can we develop or remove something. Yes, We have come back to Asterias gari question again.

"How" is still remaining. This thread is all about our application. That means unless until we are honest, we can not move forward. We (Uttam,Pallavi) are still not in a position to say that yes this is the goal of our lives and we are truly sincere towards achieving this.

Let us share what we have learnt so far from Master gari Teachings. Let us share what we have learnt for the last three years from our participation here in Satsang. Are we moving ahead or are we remaining where we are or are we going backward in our attitudes.

As this is all about application, let us go slowly but firmly by holding feet of Master gari Teachings. Please throw light from your thoughts for any change of direction to the discussion.

Jai Sai Master.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2009, 10:40:46 PM by saiuttampallavi »
Jai Sai Master.

Asterias

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1047
    • View Profile
Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
« Reply #46 on: March 24, 2009, 08:49:31 PM »
Jai Sai Master !
Quote
Are we moving ahead or are we remaining where we are or are we going backward in our attitudes.

AM 100% sure that no one can remove "where they are". In spirituality either you go up or down :)

Jai Sai Master !

Dwarakanath

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2462
    • View Profile
Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
« Reply #47 on: March 27, 2009, 07:10:11 PM »
Jai Sai Master!

Still the question pertains. Why?? Why does one want something?? Why does one want even spirituality??

I mean, I know that spirituality is 'what we want' personified. But, as we see it, SPIRITUAL PRACTICE, that which we are supposed to DO, isnt very tasty.. :p

why??

The answer lies in something deep within ourselves. The same part from which our 'weaknesses' stem, that same depth is what makes us want 'improvement'. (And most of us get caught in things both material and spiritual thinking that they provide improvement.. without thinking how they do it or whether they do it or not).

see, what is improvement? who wants to improve?? 

People talked of 'not having weakness' or 'removing weaknesses' or 'staying pure' or what ever. what do we mean by that actually?? Whats the point?? I have x weakness. I dont have that x weakness now. Am I 'improved'?? Or have I just created a new weakness which is 'I dont have that weakness'??

Let me not confuse, I pray to the Master.

See, most of the people (including me) have come into a new 'path' with Master. Some others thought so about 'communism' or 'socialism' or some other 'ism' or 'system' or 'path' or 'guru'. You know the idiotic thing about the whole thing? That just means, I have entered a new 'world view' and added a tag of 'devotee of Master' to my own self-image, through which i can freshly project my old set of ideas and values and weaknesses!! That is, I used to have jealousy, now I have jealousy with my fellow Satsangam people. I used to have 'x' weakness, now I have the same thing under the garb of some 'system' or 'ism'!! One can see this in so many places (almost all of them), whether spiritual, social, political, academic, etc. The guy who was jealous in class turns out to be jealous in office, at home, at the party, etc! May be not so blatantly, but it surely lurks! Similarly, anger, frustration, greed, lust, etc. etc. They are all still there, arnt they?? And is there improvement? If yes, what? If no, then what??

Why in Baba's name, do we want to remove them? What do we mean by 'removing' them?? What do we mean by 'being pure'?

I am saying all this not to detract people or to disappoint them, but i think its a matter of clarity. I dont want us to be confused by 'being jealous' and 'apparently jealous'. There is a lot of difference. 'Being pure' and 'apparently pure'.

There are two sides of this.

1. Most of us get a bad thought, then try and wriggle out of it by remembering Master. Eg. I get angry, but remember Baba and control myself.
2. We also get a bad thought, then justify it.

Either way, we surely take care that it doesnt show. That is, I dont truely like a person. What do I do? I hide it with manners. I get a bad thought about a girl. What do i do? i hide it and pretend to be good!!!! Is this pretension 'being pure'? Or 'I got angry, but remembered Baba and controlled myself' being good? Or is it good only if we never get angry at all? See what im talking about?

So, we have to look at the root of the problem. Why do we get the so-called 'bad thoughts', anger, jealousy, etc.?

No, I dont want the answer "because we dont see Baba everywhere." Because thats so cliche. :p

Honestly, why? no. not that answer " because we feel seperate ". That is too bookish. To even write this we have to feel seperate. :)

Sincerely think. The answer lies in thinking right. Are we bad? Are we good? or should the questions be 'Are we apparently bad or good?'

Because, otherwise, we just shove the problem around and not solve it. We say, 'because we are weak' or 'because we dont remember Baba', etc. Then one asks, how can I do that? and a flurry of the same pattern of questions and answers follows, and then we end up at the same question.

The break comes when we 'understand' that we are neither good nor bad. Think. Is there some thing to improve? If so what? Who should improve?



Jai Sai Master!!


Asterias

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1047
    • View Profile
Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
« Reply #48 on: March 29, 2009, 05:31:55 PM »
Jai Sai Master !

Dear Saibandhus,

Its a pleasant surprise that Babugaru has taken interest in this thread. I just hope that we can make best use of this :)

Babugaru has asked all of us to read pages 240 - 248 from the book Pravachanalu.

I am posting the links here to the relevant chapters from the book. Please go through it carefully and lets continue the discussion based on that.

http://www.divyajanani.org/saibharadwaja/books/saimasterPravachanamulu/Pravachanamulu_Chapter22.html
http://www.divyajanani.org/saibharadwaja/books/saimasterPravachanamulu/Pravachanamulu_Chapter23.html
Jai Sai Master

Swarup

  • Guest
Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
« Reply #49 on: April 03, 2009, 10:41:37 PM »

The break comes when we 'understand' that we are neither good nor bad. Think. Is there some thing to improve? If so what? Who should improve?


and the answer is..... ???? !!!!!! ....... NAAN YAAR    ?????   !!!!!! when I thought on similar things untill a awhile, I ended in a stage where-in the thinking itself stopped........
and yeah more recently to keep my job I stopped thinking on this :-( and again who is keeping the job, who is thinking will keep the job..... no answer to all those............ back to square one..........

Swayam

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 698
    • View Profile
Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
« Reply #50 on: April 06, 2009, 11:04:37 PM »
Jai Sai Master!

Afte reading those chapters Iam getting lots of new questions and these are pushing aside the main questions triggered by Babu garu.

I wanted to insert an image as usual I could not still figure out how to add an image here, inspite of using
Insert image option.Anyways leaving that aside, I will try to post my questions in a different way

(1) Master garu says(page 233 last para) that even to pray GOD we need good karma and after saying this
     he says we are  back, to square one.So Iam lost at this juncture.Though Master garu clearly brings out
     Sadguru can change Karma and is better to take his shelter instead of following Karma siddantam. But
     since good karma is needed to pray GOD, now Iam confused to what I should give importance,
     Karma or Sadguru Krupa ???.

(2) In page 235, Master garu says "Visvasam kalagalante appudappudanna ANUBHAVAM kalugutundaali".
     What does Master garu means by "AUBHAVAM" here ?

(3) Also Master garu in one of his articles in Sai Baba Magazine says that "If some one does anytihng bad
     to you, think that it is happening because of RUNANUBHANDHAM".
     Isn't it that this RUNANUBHANDHAM is coming into picture due to Karma that we do.If yes,
     Iam back to square one and the question of (1) above comes up again

Last but not least Iam yet to link/map Babu gari questions to chapter 22 and 23

Jai Sai Master!

గురుబోధయొక్క సారం గ్రహించి దాని ప్రకారం మన యోచనను, పనులను సంస్కరించుకొన్నపుడే మనం నిజంగా గురువును ఆశ్రయించినట్లు. అలాగాకుంటే అది మిథ్యాభక్తే.
Whatever we practice,becomes the swabhAvA.If control is practiced persistently that will become the swabhAvA.

Swarup

  • Guest
Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
« Reply #51 on: April 06, 2009, 11:55:19 PM »
Dear Swayam garu,

You kept your questions out well .... but I was a bit confused with your question. seeking clarification, So, do you mean, which one gets importance in spiritual path... karma or krupa?? or did you mean, which one comes first..(karma or krupa) ?? or did you mean which one should we prioritize from our side... ??? or did you mean something else, that I missed?? or is it just a viscious cycle one helps other ???

Om sai ram

Swayam

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 698
    • View Profile
!
« Reply #52 on: April 07, 2009, 10:29:31 AM »
Dear Swayam garu,

You kept your questions out well .... but I was a bit confused with your question. seeking clarification, So, do you mean, which one gets importance in spiritual path... karma or krupa?? or did you mean, which one comes first..(karma or krupa) ?? or did you mean which one should we prioritize from our side... ??? or did you mean something else, that I missed?? or is it just a viscious cycle one helps other ???

Om sai ram

Swarup garu,Thank you.

What I meant is to which one I should give importance or priority.
Though Master garu clearly says that we should give importance to Sadguru Krupa, he also
says that Karma influences Sadguru krupa(praardhana) and so my question.I think this is something like
chicken & egg problem!.

Jai Sai Master!
గురుబోధయొక్క సారం గ్రహించి దాని ప్రకారం మన యోచనను, పనులను సంస్కరించుకొన్నపుడే మనం నిజంగా గురువును ఆశ్రయించినట్లు. అలాగాకుంటే అది మిథ్యాభక్తే.
Whatever we practice,becomes the swabhAvA.If control is practiced persistently that will become the swabhAvA.

Dwarakanath

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2462
    • View Profile
Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
« Reply #53 on: April 07, 2009, 11:01:55 AM »
Jai Sai Master!

Swayam,

In that chapter, towards the end, Master says that it doesnt much matter which concept we stick on to. But what is important is that we stick on to any one of those completely. 'nirdushtamga'. Eitherway, the result is the same!

Read it carefully. Rather than looking for answers in each line of that chapter, look for the logical flow towards the conclusion.


Swarupgaru,

Its wonderful to hear that when you started thinking on it, you were going 'blank'! Awesome!
However, I am not going directly to "Naan Yar" (Who am I) stage. I am just trying to logically breakdown things that keep us away from looking at things properly, things like goal, Guru, God, life, etc.


When we look at it, we notice that our day is full of fluctuations. Sometimes we are confident. Sometimes we are not. Sometimes we are agitated while sometimes we are calm and reserved. Why? Because in each of these 'mood swings' life appears differently to us, so does its goal. Why? What is changing in all these? What is constant? Can we look at what changes and see if we need to really set our goals as to embrace these changes in our attitudes and moods? Or should we look at the constancy (no, not that 'I am that I am' part yet.. :p) behind these and set our goals so as to keep at it? Or should we bother about all this at all?


Most of the times,
when we talk of life or goal or what ever, depending on our mood swings and attitudes, different things come to mind. That is why one cant clearly forumulate not stick on to the same goals in life.

Also, we are what we think of at thet time. That is, when we are in our office, we dont remember that we are the owner of the tv that we have at home. That 'I am the owner of that TV' part is not part of us then!! Which means, our own picture of us is always changing! Which one are we? The one that says "I need Baba" or that one that says "I can and should take care of myself irrespective of Baba"?

This is exteremely important to think. Because our goal depends on these.

Jai Sai Master!!

Swayam

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 698
    • View Profile
Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
« Reply #54 on: April 07, 2009, 12:40:04 PM »
Jai Sai Master!

Swayam,

In that chapter, towards the end, Master says that it doesnt much matter which concept we stick on to. But what is important is that we stick on to any one of those completely. 'nirdushtamga'. Eitherway, the result is the same!

Read it carefully. Rather than looking for answers in each line of that chapter, look for the logical flow towards the conclusion.


Thank you for the clarification

Jai Sai Master
గురుబోధయొక్క సారం గ్రహించి దాని ప్రకారం మన యోచనను, పనులను సంస్కరించుకొన్నపుడే మనం నిజంగా గురువును ఆశ్రయించినట్లు. అలాగాకుంటే అది మిథ్యాభక్తే.
Whatever we practice,becomes the swabhAvA.If control is practiced persistently that will become the swabhAvA.

Swarup

  • Guest
Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
« Reply #55 on: April 08, 2009, 12:15:25 AM »

Also, we are what we think of at thet time. That is, when we are in our office, we dont remember that we are the owner of the tv that we have at home. That 'I am the owner of that TV' part is not part of us then!! Which means, our own picture of us is always changing! Which one are we? The one that says "I need Baba" or that one that says "I can and should take care of myself irrespective of Baba"?

This is exteremely important to think. Because our goal depends on these.


Very important point. But shouldn't we be handling this changing "perception" of ourselves and set a goal. For example, I have a goal as a son, brother, husband, father, employee and employer. At the same time short-term, long-term, longer-long-term (for lack of better word). Like say at work place we forget son,,, etc thing and remember employer/employee as that would be the purpose... Ofcourse why we want that situation would again go back to being a good in our other role. So, in nutshell shouldn't we be handling all these at the same time and set a goal (depending on individual capacity and limit of course).....

Om sai ram

Asterias

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1047
    • View Profile
Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
« Reply #56 on: April 09, 2009, 05:46:34 AM »
Jai Sai Master !

I think Babugaru wants to say that is, with changing role, the goal too changes. However, should it not be that the main goal decide what we should do in each role ?

Jai Sai Master !

Swarup

  • Guest
Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
« Reply #57 on: April 11, 2009, 01:24:04 AM »
Jai Sai Master !

I think Babugaru wants to say that is, with changing role, the goal too changes. However, should it not be that the main goal decide what we should do in each role ?

Jai Sai Master !

??? did you mean the other way..... each role should not decide the main goal .....


Om sai ram

Asterias

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1047
    • View Profile
Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
« Reply #58 on: April 11, 2009, 05:46:34 AM »
Jai Sai Master !

Each role does help fulfill the main goal, but it cant be that each role brings with it a yet another main goal !

Jai Sai Master !

Swarup

  • Guest
Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
« Reply #59 on: April 14, 2009, 04:27:28 AM »
Thanks asterias garu, Now I see the point.

Om sai ram