Author Topic: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud  (Read 6619 times)

Ananth

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 779
    • View Profile
Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2009, 07:59:40 AM »
Jai Sai Master, Babu garu..
Jai Sai Master, SaiBandhus..

Thinking...............................

And LOST.............................

For Answers........................... :(

Jai Sai Master!
Jai Sai Master!
Jai Swamy Sai!

Saiuttampallavi

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 896
    • View Profile
Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2009, 01:05:06 AM »
Jai Sai Master.

Dear Asterias garu,

It is like a vacation time after exams. We are trying to spend our time thinking more about how best we can utilize this time. During this time we happened to read

What is Duty? On the left side under Karma-Yoga. Please click on 'What is Duty?'
http://www.ramakrishnavivekananda.info/vivekananda/volume_1/vol_1_frame.htm

Swamy's words are really enlightening.

When you are doing any work, do not think of anything beyond. Do it as worship, as the highest worship, and devote your whole life to it for the time being.

Master garu has explained about the devotion part of our work in Pravachanamulu. We are just trying to analyze what we are doing, where we can improve the devotion/nishta and how we can make difference to our present state.

Your question

Quote
So what should we people do? What should we immediately do so as to set the picture right (at least by the end of certain duration of time) ?

is like 'ok friends, vacation is over. Get back to school'. Now dont say we have become lazy with holidays. :)

How are all others doing? Friendly hello to all. Spring is coming and we also may have to refresh ourselves. This is the time to come out of our dormant nests hiding deep inside our lazy mind sets. Let's get our heads out of blankets of ignorance and try to glance at the bright side of our lives in the form of Master gari teachings.

Let's have fruitful discussions this season.

May SaiMaster garu guide us all with Their blessings!

Jai Sai Master.

« Last Edit: March 17, 2009, 05:18:52 AM by saiuttampallavi »
Jai Sai Master.

Ananth

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 779
    • View Profile
Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2009, 02:14:46 AM »
Jai Sai Master, Babu garu..
Jai Sai Master, Sai Bandhus..

Jai Sai Master, Uttam garu & Asterias garu..

My problem is actually, exactly as described by you. Every once in a while, I ask the right questions, and then I get into the same habit of forgetting Sri SaiMaster. And by "Forgetting" I mean to say, I do not fully utilize the teachings given by HIM. It's only a half measure.

I Am sure certain ways and certain ideas gives certain people the best chance to put Master's teachings into practice. What worked for me was, I take a very very small and minor thing that I want out of my life, and I give myself one year to completely remove it. If it is a good thing also, I give myself one year to positively develop it forever.

Many philosophers and self-help teachers found the idea of 21 day habit very effective. It takes a minimum of 21 days to get into a new good habit and keep at it forever. Most of the times, we tend to givce it up before 21 days.

For example, being here in Canada, it was almost becoming next to impossible to get Sai Bhaktas to do satsangam. We tried many ways to give introduction to Sai Master, but we were total failures. We got frustrated. We developed that frustration by changing it into our laziness. I guess, by our pure good luck and the blessings of Master garu, we started doing it again with the right attitude. This happened 2 years back. We thought, no matter what, whether someone comes to the satsangam or not, it is our duty to tell them. If they don't, then forget it and let's do it ourselves with being just one family. So, we put a target of 1 year to continuously do the satsangam every thursday without missing at any cost. By Master's blessings, that target was met successfully and now, it is like we miss something if we even think of missing it.

In the same way, I believe, that we can keep a target, a realistic target of removing our bad habits and also to implement Master's teachings effectively and continuously.

Now, Asterias garu, the reason for my short answer previously was, I did think about what you wrote, but sincerely and frankly felt, what can I write? I know I am not following Master's teachings 100%, but I also know that I am trying to do that. So far, it's only like a drop in the ocean and a long way to go. I keep falling down and getting up, but I feel confident that SaiMaster is always with us. That's why your post, particularly the words that you wrote below, made me more helpless.

Quote
Atleast Sai bandhus have got a good medium. We have books written by Mastergaru. So we read them. We re read them. And then what ? We never bother to practice them. The problem is that atleast some of us dont know that we have to put it into practice  (Parayana is confined to only 1-2 hours and not supposed to be practiced!!) or we usually want to practice is far above our level, which again means that we dont know our own level. Finally even spirituality becomes materialism. Books turn into dull routine, so we look for answers - we find answers only to be caught in questions.

Its also very easy to say that we have improved by reading Mastergaru's books or by His sannidhi. But have we really ?? I think we have somehow tried to suppress our bad qualities by some other means, but have by no means really overcome them.


What Mastergaru has written in His books is of supreme value. He talks about spirituality very very holistically. There is no other way one can really put it. In His books we find the synthesis, we find harmony, we find wisdom ( not us - but those who really READ it - because thats what they say!). He has written life histories of Mahatmas, He has told us how to conduct our daily life, how to do pooja, how to meditate, how to prove the existence of god, how to realize god and finally how to be humble despite being the GREATEST. But do our actions or our words reflect what Mastergaru says???

And at the end of it we talk about goal, life and what not !

This is the irony I feel most of us would have realized in our own daily lives. The dichotomy - the clear separation between what we read during Parayana and what we do outside it.

After going through the above, I realized, sometimes, how futile it is, and how daring we should be to even implement one single teaching of Master garu.

What caught my attention was the "clear separation between what we read and what we do outside of it....". So true!! Do you think I am heading in the right direction with what I specified above? Taking time to remove one thing at a time. Can't we do that? IF we can't, then why can't we? If we can, how can we move forward even faster??

This was actually mentioned by Sri Chaitanya Swamyji long time back, about keeping one year target to remove/develop!! Let's say for example, Master garu mentioned in Pravachanamulu, that initially, learning to ride a bicycle takes a lot of effort and concentration. After several years, it's like your nervous system automatically does it while you are eating, drinking, talking etc etc. While doing those things, you still ride the bicycle very very effectively. That happened only because you practised it very hard initially. In the same way, the things which are considered bad in spirituality, can't we remove them just like riding a bicycle? Atleast the easiest ones?? by practising very very hard, for the initial years?

Asterias garu, I do not mean to sound that doing the above is very easy. It is really very difficult, not as easy as riding a bicycle, but we can definitely try. What I wanted to ask was, once we fall down, how do we get up? How do we decrease the separation between what we read and we are doing? How do we remove that separation forever?

Somehow, your post has shown me the same helplessness about my inability to move forward in Master's teachings, just like what Babu garu did when HE asked all of us, what makes us book a return ticket from Shirdi? What is making us return from Shirdi? Why not buy one-way ticket and just stay there by forgetting everything else??? It is also equivalent to Master garu's teaching of doing parayana and putting it into practise 100% OR more like Master's Diamond జీవితమే సాధనలొ భాగం కావలి, సాధన జీవితం లొ భాగం కాకుడదు "Jeevithame saadhana lo bhaagam kaavali, saadhana jeevitham lo bhaagam kaakudadu". HELPLESS!

I guess, we can be true devotees of Master once we implement the above to 100% effect.

Pleas share your views and forgive me if I said something bad.

Regards!
Jai Sai Master!
Jai Sai Master!
Jai Swamy Sai!

Asterias

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1047
    • View Profile
Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2009, 06:48:07 AM »
Jai Sai Master !

Dear Ananthgaru and other Sai bandhus

Ananthgaru you talk of taking one year to remove/develop a habit. This is similar to what Ammagaru told in the new year speech 2006-2007 (I think).

Also you talk about 21 day cycle. Actually we believe in a 40 day cycle, that is why the Deeksha period is 40 days.

But think of it Ananthgaru, the sincerity we have towards remove/develop a habit in the initial days does it sustain ? And if does not sustain why?? In my view the answer lies in the importance that we give to remove/develop a habit. If we see a motive that is not long lasting, its not going to work.

And so my question, what should be the first step ? Usually we attribute removal or development of some of the easier habits to spirituality and dont bother about the other tougher ones. But see the irony, we could have removed/developed that habit without even the need of spirituality. So is it not like wasting a blank cheque ? This is what I am talking about.

Hope I am clear (about the question, the answer i am still unclear!)

Jai Sai Master !

Saiuttampallavi

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 896
    • View Profile
Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
« Reply #19 on: March 17, 2009, 04:42:43 PM »
Jai Sai Master.

Quote
So, we put a target of 1 year to continuously do the satsangam every thursday without missing at any cost. By Master's blessings, that target was met successfully and now, it is like we miss something if we even think of missing it.

Ananth garu,

Jai Sai Master for the sankalpam of yours. We experience the same.

We have Satsang on every alternate Saturdays and on every Saturday sometimes. It appears to be ideal to all of us as it makes it tough for few to attend the satsangs during the week days and especially during harsh weather. You may try this and see.

Master garu mentioned about this aspect in Satsangam-Bhajana.

Asterias garu,

Quote
we could have removed/developed that habit without even the need of spirituality.
How do we know what we have removed/developed right?

Quote
Usually we attribute removal or development of some of the easier habits to spirituality and dont bother about the other tougher ones.

Happy news is atleast we start with easyones. When we are ready for the tough ones, we realize it and they may not appear as tough ones but just easy ones.  Constant paarayana, Listening to Master gari speeches alerts us and it happens so naturally we would have implemented the tough ones. This is what we think and experiencing now.

Quote
And so my question, what should be the first step ?

What we understand is if we removed/developed what Sai Master garu advises us is something needs be done sincerely till we start doing it as a natural part of our life.

To gain inspiration, we share about Sai Bhakta Megha.

If we keenly observe Megha's life, he did not have complete faith in Baba initially. Master garu explains  in Sai Leelamrutam 'సాయి  సర్వజ్ఞతకు మేఘుడాశ్చర్య పోయాడే  కాని తన శంక తొలగక షిర్డి నుండి వెళ్లిపోయాడు'..  But with Baba's blessings he gains faith and comes back to Shirdi.

Then onwards, he started doing some practices which Baba encouraged him to do without fail. He used to walk every day for four miles . We thought about it, did Baba ask him to do this? Might not be? The devotion might have arose in him naturally from his janma samskara and / or due to his presence near Baba and / or his determination to practice his sincere thoughts. But if we observe, with this he started doing puja to Baba as exactly as he used to do puja for Lord Siva. That means Baba has become his Lord. His mind ultimately reached the destination.

Baba helped him a lot when he made mistakes like asking Megha to do puja at Khandoba Temple first always which would have improved his nishta constantly.

Baba also supported him by giving 'Shiva Linga' to pray. We can read it in Sai Leelamrutam chapter 'Sadgathi'. Here Master garu explains about many aspects of our duty.

And ultimately Megha has become the 'Nijamaina Bhaktudu'.

The word 'Hrudaya pariwartana' హ్రుదయ పరివర్తన touches our hearts most.

Quote
And so my question, what should be the first step ?

1. Think with the help of Paarayana of Mahatmas Teachings. Come closer to Mahatmas (in the form of Paarayana Books).

2. Try / Attempt / practice

3. May Make mistakes or may not which would have moved us ahead.

4. Realize (  'Hrudaya pariwartana' హ్రుదయ పరివర్తన )

For realization, we think of two aspects - one from from our actions with outside world and other one from our postive or negative actions happens from inside.

First one can be realized by following Amma gari words which must help us if our mistakes are out of our ahankara .
" ఇతరులను విమర్షించేవాడు అవివేకి. తనను తాను విమర్షించుకునేవాడు వివేకి అని ". 


Second one can be realized by following Babu gari words 
'The secret is never to forget the lessons learnt! ' . We can apply to removed/developed part too.

5. Retry / reattempt / Re-practice
Naturally with experiences learnt will make us more devote towards what we are doing this time.

Satsang supports at each and every stage of this cycle.

Please share your thoughts.

Jai Sai Master.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2009, 01:03:23 AM by saiuttampallavi »
Jai Sai Master.

Asterias

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1047
    • View Profile
Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
« Reply #20 on: March 18, 2009, 10:10:19 AM »
Jai Sai Master !

Dear Sai bandhus, Ananthgaru and Saiuttampallavigaru, With the spirit of improving ourselves and our understanding, ill ask a few things. My intention is not to hurt or to condemn.
Quote
For example, being here in Canada, it was almost becoming next to impossible to get Sai Bhaktas to do satsangam. We tried many ways to give introduction to Sai Master, but we were total failures. We got frustrated. We developed that frustration by changing it into our laziness. I guess, by our pure good luck and the blessings of Master garu, we started doing it again with the right attitude. This happened 2 years back. We thought, no matter what, whether someone comes to the satsangam or not, it is our duty to tell them. If they don't, then forget it and let's do it ourselves with being just one family. So, we put a target of 1 year to continuously do the satsangam every thursday without missing at any cost. By Master's blessings, that target was met successfully and now, it is like we miss something if we even think of missing it.

I dont know how you are interpreting this incident, but here is my view of it. Satsangam is done to better ourselves. To say that its for others is never the right thing. So, if I might say, initially the understanding that you had was not correct. Later on it became correct. And you might say that you removed your laziness or reduced it, but i would say that its matter of understanding. Satsangam is the connection/realization of the omnipresent.

 ?Satsang is association with the Divine Reality which is eternal and omnipresent. To be aware of it at all times is satsang."

So one needs to do irrespective of whether others are coming or not. Dont we need to have the association with the Divine throughout the day??? This is my opinion.

But again, what do you do in satsangam? Do you do it exactly as Mastergaru says in Satsangam and Bhajana. Are other books of Mastergaru read??
Do we finish the satsangam and start our normal gossips? Are we developing faith in the supreme protection that Baba offers us ...
Quote
What we understand is if we removed/developed what Sai Master garu advises us is something needs be done sincerely till we start doing it as a natural part of our life.

You are talking about accepting Mastergaru as the authority, whereas I am questioning spirituality itself. The reason is that if we are able to do like what Mastergaru asks us to do completely, then we would be following the path as set by Him, not wasting even one second and sure to reach the goal in this life itself. But even when we do Parayana, are we getting the real meaning of Parayana or is it a mere book reading at least sometimes ? If one says that Parayana is happening the way Mastergaru says then why are leaving the book at all. Why restrict it to 1 or 2 hours a day. Why not it be the life itself. ? Even before we sit down for Parayana, we have decided that it is going to be done for this much time or this many pages. I think Parayana as a form of sadhana loses it value from that time itself.

If we say that we are trying to do what Mastergaru says (focus on trying) then that means our clarity on Mastergaru as an authority or a guide is not yet established fully. In such a case, we are not fully accepting what Mastergaru is saying.

Its like the Winner's paradox that Babugaru talks about. Winners dont try to win, they are already winners. Till the time you try to win, you are not a winner.

Also, in view of 1 year for removal and development, please try to put it in the purview of what Mastergaru says in Sai Baba and His Teachings, chapter one, page 1:

"Once we study his life with a discerning eye, we cannot refrain from reflecting and contemplating the same and the more we reflect, the more we discover ever new dimensions and nuances, and without any conscious effort on our part similar tendencies of thought-following action engrain themselves in us. Thus a subtle and imperceptible, a positive transformation, a kind of spiritual alchemy takes place in our being. It is to be noted that any genuine development in us is bound to be unconscious and only at the end of the long process, if we ever feel like to look back to our own past, we will be able to appreciate the difference. Otherwise a profound peace and a good sense of harmony with the whole of existence pulsates as our life and moments pass with a sense of new realization, a sense of novelty. We will be able to see the eternal novelty of all existence. Any other form of development with is self conscious, is at best spectacular and artificial and hence it does not last. Every peak experience is bound to be followed by a dippression"
Quote

Happy news is atleast we start with easyones. When we are ready for the tough ones, we realize it and they may not appear as tough ones but just easy ones.  Constant paarayana, Listening to Master gari speeches alerts us and it happens so naturally we would have implemented the tough ones. This is what we think and experiencing now.

What I was also trying to point out there was, why we dont have the same intensity all throughout this one year period for removing or developing? Removing something or developing something lies in the bigger persepective of what we think is our goal. And that is precisely what this thread is all about. Another point that I have is that how to realize what to remove or to develop. Even if the goal is clear (to a certain extent), one needs to find out what is the source of bad qualities in me. Usually irritation leads to frustration and then anger etc etc. The order might be different for different people and may even be different for the same person at different times, but yet there is an order. Once that order is understood, one can remove the source of it so that others are removed at the same time. If one does not want to do Parayana, then by forcing Parayana on such a person, we are not helping that person. One should understand why Parayana needs to be done, and then do it. The difference between ideally why a thing is to be done and why we are doing it, needs to be understood.

Jai Sai Master !

Ananth

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 779
    • View Profile
Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
« Reply #21 on: March 18, 2009, 12:58:51 PM »
Jai Sai Master, Babu garu..
Jai Sai Master, Sai Bandhus..

Jai Sai Master, Asterias garu & Uttam garu..

Quote
I dont know how you are interpreting this incident, but here is my view of it. Satsangam is done to better ourselves. To say that its for others is never the right thing. So, if I might say, initially the understanding that you had was not correct. Later on it became correct. And you might say that you removed your laziness or reduced it, but i would say that its matter of understanding. Satsangam is the connection/realization of the omnipresent.

I ask for forgiveness if my incident has given way to miscommunication. Let me redescribe everything that went behind the incident.

After years of parayana, and slowly coming to see the greatness of Master garu, there came a time, when we will genuinely want to be a part of life that is bigger than us. We would want to contribute something beyond our reason, it could be love or respect or bhakti or the combination of all. That longing was developed after developing bhakti, respect, and love towards Master. Next question is, how can I be a part of something bigger than life which will make Master bless me? By spread His words!! His teachings!! Why "Bless me"?? Because I want Master to be my sadguru! Why Master only?? Because something tells me that He is the "saati leni sadguru". That "Something" cannot be explained, atleast not by me. But I experienced it after his "swapna darsanamulu",..after reading His books, after doing parayana regularly, after attending satsangam. Please do remember, I did this with lots of imperfection, and many times with the blatant, shamless reason for my life to be more luxurious (as an example), but sometimes with the purpose of not bettering myself but to introduce others to see  Master also!!

So, with that intention, I wanted to be a part of what Master asked us. What did he ask us?? To do parayana, to spread the word of Sai, to the best of our ability. Having experienced (0.01%) of His greatness, I wanted to tell others of His greatness and the greatness of His Sadguru, namely "Sai Baba". So, we started trying to tell others about Master. But to no effect. People still considered Sai Baba as a God but not as a Sadguru who is waiting, who is watching, who is around us, inside us....but we still prayed to Him only as a God. Apart from this, I also observed that many people (just like me, who was going in the wrong direction until I met Master in the form of "Sai Baba the Master") gave importance to miracles, the "False Miracles". So, we genuinely wanted them to see the greatness of Master's way of Satsangam.

Why did we do it? Not because we thought the satsangam was for others. But because we wanted them to be the same Sugar cubes into the nectar of water called "Sai Master".

So, Asterias garu, please forgive me but I think you misunderstood when I meant about Satsangam for others. Besides, we always wanted to follow the particular point of Master where He says in Leelamrutam ఇలాంటి ఒడుదుడుకులకు గల కారణాలలొ - సాటి వారి పట్ల మనకుండే భావము, వారి స్వభావాలలో కుడా ఉంటాయి....అంటే సాటి వారి లోని, మనలోని బలహీనతలే ప్రధాన కారణాలు. సాంగత్యానికి మనపై మనమూహించలెనంతటి ప్రభావము ఉంటుంది. సాటి వారి ద్రుష్టి కుడా సంస్కరించబడుతూ ఉంటే మన యత్నమూ సులభము అవుతూ ఉంటుంది...


"ilaanti odudukulaku gala kaaranaalalo - saati vaari patla manakunde bhaavamu, vaari swabhaavaalalo kuda untaayi....ante saati vaari loni, manaloni balaheenathale pradhaana kaaranaalu. saangatyaaniki manapai manamoohinchalenantati prabhaavamu untundi. saati vaari drushti kuda samskarinchabadutoo unte mana yatnamoo sulabhamu avtoo untundi...."

So, althought we wanted others to follow Master's satsangam, it is not just for us and it is also not just for them. It is the "saamoohika parayana" that we do in the form of satsangam that gives us the strength to better ourselves.

Asterias garu, here itself, we are following some points of Master garu. One, Satsangam, two telling others of satsangam, and not to feel elated and proud of our achievements and not to feel that we are better than others, Master told us about "atma vimarsa". As long as we do the self-introspection at the same time of spreading Master's words, we are bettering ourselves. Agreed!! We are not moving fast, but we are moving. Don't you think so??

I am still in awe of what you wrote regarding other points which I am trying to think, I will continue if I can arrive at a better answer.
Until that time there are some more that I want to bring out Asterias garu.

Quote
If we say that we are trying to do what Mastergaru says (focus on trying) then that means our clarity on Mastergaru as an authority or a guide is not yet established fully. In such a case, we are not fully accepting what Mastergaru is saying.

I do not agree with you asterias garu. Just because we don't have a clarity on what Master garu said, it is not enough to say that we are not fully accepting what Master garu is saying. I know this might be a lame example but a case in point is Master garu says that after achieving some powers we will be able to see 360 degrees. How to achieve that? He laid out a clear plan...physical, mental, philosphical, emotiional, spiritual..every step of the way He laid out a plan. It's up to us to follow that plan to fruition. It may take 1 life for some, 1000 lives for oters and a trillion lives for most of us. But I won't stop accepting what Master told me in those books.
Quote
But even when we do Parayana, are we getting the real meaning of Parayana or is it a mere book reading at least sometimes ? If one says that Parayana is happening the way Mastergaru says then why are leaving the book at all. Why restrict it to 1 or 2 hours a day. Why not it be the life itself. ? Even before we sit down for Parayana, we have decided that it is going to be done for this much time or this many pages. I think Parayana as a form of sadhana loses it value from that time itself.

Most of the times, it is mere book reading for me. But that's exactly the point of Master garu. It depends on the strength of the devotee. Sadguruvu evvarini vaalla saktiki minchi atmapadamloki laaga choodaru!! (Ref: Leelamrutam). Also in the chapter "Satsanga Mahima" Master says "Atma gnaanamu kalige lopala manaku konni avasaaraalu kashtaalu teerchukochoodatam tappadu". And that's what I meant about a target. Just on a physical plane itself, we need weeks to come out of a habit, you can imagine the mental perspective of it. So, with practice and failure and repractise, we will someday achieve what Master garu said.

Asterias garu, it is a burning question and appreciate your sincerity of it, my intention is never to say "you are wrong". But at the same time, please try to understand our helplessnes in our quest for perfection. We cannot, in an overnight say "this book is my life". Maybe we can, after Master gives us the permission and He takes us through. But Master might also be seeing that we are not yet ripe. So, althought I see the importance of your yearning, I see the "Meru Parvatam laanti" "odudukulu" of life, and that is where no one in this universe has given the teachings as effectively as Master did. His teachings take us one step at a time, safe and sound. His Bridge to Perfection is built upon the unbreakable cement of simple practicality, topped with cement-like smoothness of Parayana, and made tough by another topping of Water in the form of Satsangam. On this bridge, there are millions of "walkers", 1000s of rickshaws, 100s of autos, and 10s of cars. We never know when Master will come in a roccket and take us. Just like He said many times, open the doors of our hearts and wait for the rocket to lift us. That's all!!

Hope I did not offend you Asterias garu, but these are my frank opinions.

Quote
Do we finish the satsangam and start our normal gossips? Are we developing faith in the supreme protection that Baba offers us ...

Good that you brought this up. Yes, indeed!! We were doing the satsangam just like you said, for some years. But when we started reading Leelamrutam of Master, we came to know how incorrect we were doing. So, we started implementing the teachings in such a way that people arrive in satsangam in the established time, do the satsangam, take the tiny prasasdam, say "jai Sai Master" and then leave. Before that, devotees (including ourselves, many years back) started showing-off the power, by cooking lots of fancy food, singing many many bhajans, trying to sing like a great singer instead of concentrating on Baba, wearing nice clothes, and worst of all, chit-chatting after the satsangam. But once we started reading Master's teachings, we slowly moved out of those habits. Another point which was done as Master told us.

Finally Asterias garu,
Quote
What I was also trying to point out there was, why we dont have the same intensity all throughout this one year period for removing or developing? Removing something or developing something lies in the bigger persepective of what we think is our goal. And that is precisely what this thread is all about. Another point that I have is that how to realize what to remove or to develop. Even if the goal is clear (to a certain extent), one needs to find out what is the source of bad qualities in me. Usually irritation leads to frustration and then anger etc etc. The order might be different for different people and may even be different for the same person at different times, but yet there is an order. Once that order is understood, one can remove the source of it so that others are removed at the same time. If one does not want to do Parayana, then by forcing Parayana on such a person, we are not helping that person. One should understand why Parayana needs to be done, and then do it. The difference between ideally why a thing is to be done and why we are doing it, needs to be understood.

Agreed, word for word. But please try to understand the "degree" of it. The limits of each of us. You were asking why we cannot have the same intensity through out one year. If we are able to maintain the same intensity for the entire 365 days, then we don't need one year do we?? The one year maybe a yardstick. Some take more, some take less, but the intention is to remove it from its roots. For that to happen, we need to sharpen the wood-cutting knife, keep ploughing the underground roots one shot at a time, and doubly make sure that there are no more roots which will give take the strength of the earth/water/sunlight to grow into a "weed" again. As Master says, "mallee mallee kalupu teestoo, neeru postoo unte, gedalu paadu cheyyakundaa unte, appudu manchi thota pergutundi". For all this, it cannot happen fast, not atleast for many of us.

Best regards!!
Jai Sai Master
« Last Edit: March 18, 2009, 07:47:31 PM by ananth »
Jai Sai Master!
Jai Swamy Sai!

Saiuttampallavi

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 896
    • View Profile
Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
« Reply #22 on: March 18, 2009, 10:21:57 PM »
Jai SaiMaster.

Quote
You are talking about accepting Mastergaru as the authority, whereas I am questioning spirituality itself. The reason is that if we are able to do like what Mastergaru asks us to do completely, then we would be following the path as set by Him, not wasting even one second and sure to reach the goal in this life itself.

Asterias garu,

We have to agree with Ananth garu.We are in the first steps of understanding Master gari teachings. If we say we are following Master garu completely, dont believe us because we have just completed reading all Master gari Books only once and not even remember many aspects of teachings. But what we are doing is take a small portion of Master gari teachings say Nitya Paarayanam and Satsangam on a regular basis and experimenting how far we can change our attitudes, how far we can gain self confidence. But our samskaras gained so far are big hurdles of practicing every second. We still worry about our jobs, we still worry about future but the intensity of worrying is reducing. This is the clarity we gain now with practice of small portion of Master gari Teachings.

Quote
But even when we do Parayana, are we getting the real meaning of Parayana or is it a mere book reading at least sometimes ? If one says that Parayana is happening the way Mastergaru says then why are leaving the book at all. Why restrict it to 1 or 2 hours a day. Why not it be the life itself. ? Even before we sit down for Parayana, we have decided that it is going to be done for this much time or this many pages. I think Parayana as a form of sadhana loses it value from that time itself.

(we have edited part of what we expressed earlier after thinking for some time.)

We do agree with you that our paarayanas become mechanical. But we can look back and see the difference. We are trying to be optimistic here.

We never used to do paaryana.
We used to do paarayana when we had problems.
We used to do paarayana once in a while but used to continue till it completes.
We used to do paarayana on a regular basis but one para out of lazyness and out of busy schedule.
We used to do paarayana on a regular basis irrespective of busy schedule.
We are doing paarayana as a saptaha because it was told that it is good.
We are doing paarayana as a saptaha because we love do it that way.
We still love paarayana. And we can not do anything else without starting the day without paarayana. We are trying to spend as much time as possible in paarayana.

Quote
I think Parayana as a form of sadhana loses it value from that time itself.

We accept this if we are continuously doing paarayana mechanically. Love to read this many times. "Parayana as a form of sadhana".

Quote
If we say that we are trying to do what Mastergaru says (focus on trying) then that means our clarity on Mastergaru as an authority or a guide is not yet established fully.

It is correct. We will share our thoughts in the next couple of days.

Quote
In such a case, we are not fully accepting what Mastergaru is saying.
We do not agree with this part.

Quote
My intention is not to hurt or to condemn.

One valuable lesson we learnt is having the heart of acceptance during Satsang like here always helps us to gain the benefits because we can learn many great things which can not be learnt for many many years from just reading. We think it becomes a part of mananam of what we read during paarayana.
Quote
What I was also trying to point out there was, why we dont have the same intensity all throughout this one year period for removing or developing? Removing something or developing something lies in the bigger persepective of what we think is our goal. And that is precisely what this thread is all about. Another point that I have is that how to realize what to remove or to develop. Even if the goal is clear (to a certain extent), one needs to find out what is the source of bad qualities in me. Usually irritation leads to frustration and then anger etc etc. The order might be different for different people and may even be different for the same person at different times, but yet there is an order. Once that order is understood, one can remove the source of it so that others are removed at the same time. If one does not want to do Parayana, then by forcing Parayana on such a person, we are not helping that person. One should understand why Parayana needs to be done, and then do it. The difference between ideally why a thing is to be done and why we are doing it, needs to be understood.

We would like to discuss more on this to get clarity. Hopefully do this in another couple of days.

Jai Sai Master.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2009, 11:56:02 PM by saiuttampallavi »
Jai Sai Master.

Asterias

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1047
    • View Profile
Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
« Reply #23 on: March 20, 2009, 09:50:27 PM »
Jai Sai Master !

My definition of acceptance, or the way I see acceptance is based on understanding. The more we understand about Mastergaru, the more our acceptance of Him is.  I guess this was the root of the debate regarding acceptance.

But when someone says that Mastergaru's way has been accepted, what s the next step??

1. Is doing Paryana or Satsangam what Mastergaru told ?

2. I used to have this doubt and I am mentioning it here. When you read SaiBaba Aartulu (The small book), Mastergaru says that Baba's anugraham is there on someone who does Aarti. In Dhyana Yoga Sarwaswam He talks about how to lead the ideal day ( kind of routine), in which there is no mention of Aarti. So what should I follow?

In one book, Mastergaru says that nothing should be accepted on the face of it, that one must find out for Himself what is true and what is not true. In another book, He says that, are we not accepting what scientists are saying, similarly we should listen to what our elders say. So what sh ould I follow?

If you read Sai Baba and His teachings, I found one thing really interesting. May be some of you have gone through it. On page 42, He gives one definition for work, on page 91 He gives a completely different meaning for it (Work, utter Lord's name, read scriptures) So what should I follow?

Specifically with regard to Parayana, I find that lot of people do it without knowing it for which reason. Doing Parayan is not the end. Are we doing Tatvachintana ?? Babugaru often repeats the statement from Pravachanlu, "Tatvachintane tarwate Bhakti kalugtondi ......"

Whether we accept Mastergaru or not, whether we have enough faith in Him or not is all too personal/subjective to be debated. One needs to be really honest with one's self.

Jai Sai Master !

Ananth

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 779
    • View Profile
Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
« Reply #24 on: March 21, 2009, 01:46:52 AM »
Jai Sai Master, Babu garu..
Jai Sai Master, Sai Bandhus..

Jai Sai Master, Asterias garu..

Great that you are leading us to so many thoughts. The one thing that I am worried about and the one thing that you hit the nail on its head, or rather should I say "on my head"  :) is about Parayana. Before coming to that part, I am pondering about those two points that you mentioned in the latest post.

You are asking "what you should do about two contrasting statements of Master garu". I am definitely not the authority nor have the capability to answer even in a decent way but here's my thought. Master garu in Pravachanamulu, talks about Karma and Bhakti with contrasting questions. He uses the example of flowing Hot-Oil coming towards you. Do you pray to God to rescue you? If yes, then why worry that the oil is coming towards you? If not, if you are taking care of yourself and are ready to rescue yourself, then why pray to God and why worry at all about what's gonna happen? Also, Master garu explains that both of them are correct, where you pray to God as part of one responsibility and also try with your trials as another responsibility. Getting a rope to hang in the air to escape the oil is "God rescuing you " and you taking the rope and trying your best to hang on in the air is your trial. It is different sides of the same coin.

I might not be completely correct but the above situation applies to your doubts. You MUST have that coin of two different sides to reach to a fruitful spirituality. You cannot just depend on the books and at the same time you cannot just depend on what Mahatmas said. I am thinking that's what Master must have told us in two contrasting styles. Infact, I am recollecting that Master garu Himself has gone through that process where He asked His father about the importance of putting the first morsel of food outside as a spiritual gesture. He questioned but at the same time, He researched the answer without believing the face value of it.

Similarly, in point # 2, you are mentioning about Arati. That is the same reason, I THINK!! It all depends on the degree of understanding as you specified in the post. Besides, it also depends on our mood. Please forgive me for using the word "mood" because we are, atleast I am like that. Sometimes, I feel like doing arati and other times, I just want to read a book of Master. No matter how much I try, I cannot do the arati with concentration. So, whatever mood we are in, as long as we concentrate in some way on Sai Master, we are going forward. As Master garu explains in Dhyana Yoga sarwaswam, "Going from one process to another process is by itself a change of air and change of mood". I guess, Master garu must be explaining different aspects, say, a,b,c,d,e. One could do a,b,c and another could do c,d,a but the main point is He must have explained it as per the mentality of the reader. I feel that it is upto us to mix it up and make it interesting and stay in the path specified by Master garu.

As, write all this, please believe me, I am the worst when it comes to discipline. So, I know every inch of your question.

Coming to the most important part of your question, regarding Parayana. Many times, I feel the same pinch. Why can't I just increase it a little bit more? Why can't I do it all day long? Just like you asked previously, why restrict to 2 hours? Every single day, I sit down, an hour, do parayana, and then I say "that's enough" and I hurry up with my worldly activities. Right now, I should be increasing my parayana because I am staying home. I should be utilizing more but I am not doing that. That pinches me but the pinch does not last enough to get my bum off to the pooja room, sit before Baba and start my parayana. That pinch is not strong enough, and I don't know how to make it strong. Even if by pure luck I get that inspiration, I sit, I feel happy and closer to Sai Master, but that does not last. What to do??

And I agree with you Asterias garu. I am not even 1% honest when it comes to that "Pinch"  that I am talking about. You termed it correctly. We need to be honest. But how?? My problem is, I develop a little bhakti, maybe for 30 seconds, and then I lose it.

Before I forget, thanks to you, my parayana has a little more intensity, ever since we started this post Asterias garu. It did not increase on length but definitely I feel a little better with my parayana. Out of 9 pages, 7 pages are mere reading. But atleast 2 pages, I am able to read it with concentration and it is leading to more thoughts of my reading other books of Master garu. But like I said, your questions still remain my questions too. I am not honest with myself.

So, as a first step to your pointer of what Babu garu said, I will start with Tatwa-chintana. I am not saying that I will DO TATWACHINTANA. I will try to understand it first and then attempt to see if I can increase my parayana.

In the mean time, I will stop blabbering by saying "Thank you" for your "what next" in your first post. "What Next" is really a very important question. It makes or breaks us in many ways! And I think we ask this in many many many ways both spiritually and materialistically.

Regards!

Jai Sai Master!

PS:  :) :) I really miss my work. The one hour lunch time is almost always spent in online satsangam. Now, staying home, all I do in lunch time is  :)  cook, watch movies, play with children.
Jai Sai Master!
Jai Swamy Sai!

Saiuttampallavi

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 896
    • View Profile
Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
« Reply #25 on: March 21, 2009, 04:41:10 AM »
Jai Sai Master.

Asterias garu, Ananth garu,

Quote
If we say that we are trying to do what Mastergaru says (focus on trying) then that means our clarity on Mastergaru as an authority or a guide is not yet established fully.
We say it is correct as we are looking at the first part of "we are trying to do" because of two things here

1. We are trying to follow Master gari sayings to the extent we can at this stage of our life.
2. We also do not have complete clarity of Master gari Teachings. We have taken the words 'authority or a guide' as synonym to teachings.

If we say we are following, then that means we have already understood Master gari Teachings completely and following them. That means we have already reached our destination.

This is evident from your other above questions from today. Honestly speaking we would like to put sincere effort to know about them.

Quote
In one book, Mastergaru says that nothing should be accepted on the face of it, that one must find out for Himself what is true and what is not true. In another book, He says that, are we not accepting what scientists are saying, similarly we should listen to what our elders say. So what should I follow?

We have chosen the second option of following SaiMaster gari teachngs because of the reasons:

1. We have many limitations (mainly lack of sincerity and knowledge how to do it) of choosing the first path that one must find out for Himself what is true and what is not true.

2. Faith developed from the minimum time of practice of Master gari Teachings after noticing positive change in our attitudes.

Our experience of noticing the positive changes in our personal lives with the help of Paarayana Books of Master garu has been a big console as we are developing slight sincerity towards clarifying about our doubts instead of blindly following the Teachings. It is something like Master garu is teaching us about many aspects of Teachings in Paarayana Books. Sad part is our effort is still very very minimum.

We have learnt some answers in Master gari speech here related to the above question:

http://www.divyajanani.org/saibharadwaja/audiovideos/telugu/25a.%20Bhagawad%20Gita%20Day%201.mp3

Jai Sai Master.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2009, 04:42:59 AM by saiuttampallavi »
Jai Sai Master.

Asterias

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1047
    • View Profile
Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
« Reply #26 on: March 21, 2009, 05:46:40 AM »
Jai Sai Master !

Dear Ananthgaru and Saiuttampallavigaru

Based on the previous posts, dont you feel that we accept from Mastergaru's teachings that which is suitable to us physically, mentally and spiritually?

And knowing our own inadequacies, dont you think that there is a chance that what we consider "suitable", might not at all be suitable for us? What I mean by this is that Mastergaru never said do a,b,c,d,e etc etc. HE told that to do 'a', you need to remember this, you need to have this attitude, if you do 'b', you need to remember this, and you need to have this attitude ...

No way is unsuitable, but at the end of the day, its our honesty that counts. Whether you sit for Parayana or not is not the question at all. Whether you do satsangam or not is not the question at all. Are you being honest to yourself? Are you able to do that to others, which you want them to do to you? I think those are the pertinent questions. Again, what is spirituality, and do we really beleive in it (Mastergaru says that one who knows true spirituality can never not do it, which implies, we dont have full grasp of it)

As Babugaru once said, when we are doing Parayana, whenever good things are told , we equate it to us. Whenever bad things are told, we remember what others do and what are the faults in them! In the same way, as mentioned above, we take from Mastergaru's teachings that which appeals to us. So if Mastergaru says that the goal of life is x, y, z .. we would probably read it as a,b,c... This is our state.

I am not criticizing this state that we are all in. I am just trying to say that in this state, one should try to think for himself, rather than blindly follow someone (and that too our interpretation of "follow"). What Mastergaru says in His books is GOLD. But frankly we cant seem to apply to it. We are all trying, but I think till the time we are trying, we are also understanding (as compared to understood). So we need to think for ourselves!!

So what is the "GOAL of LIFE" ???

Jai Sai Master!

ps: nice discussion going on here, please continue :) Hope other members too start contributing and adding to it whatever we might miss.

Swayam

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 698
    • View Profile
Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
« Reply #27 on: March 21, 2009, 08:04:18 AM »
Jai Sai Master!

PS:  :) :) I really miss my work. The one hour lunch time is almost always spent in online satsangam. Now, staying home, all I do in lunch time is  :)  cook, watch movies, play with children.

Y'day I was just thinking about my options in office and I see that I have below two options
ProjectA - very hectic one which adds lots of value to my resume and leaves me little time to do parayana
ProjectB- not so great project, which will not add much value, but leaves me with lots of time to do parayana as the  project is not hectic.Even if I have lots of time, will I indulge all the time in paryana is altogether a question in itself.

These two options y'day just sprang to my mind, automatically my mind went for A .
Immediately after that, I felt very guilty.Lots of questions came in my mind.
Why the hell I chose A, Is it that Iam more interested in my carreer rather than doing parayana.
Is it that I give more importance to my career than parayana.
Actually it will be Parayana which will give me long lasting happiness than building my career.
Though I know this why did my mind chose option A.I felt ashamed.

Why is that this mind takes options which give short lived happiness, though very well I know
that the happiness will be short lived with some options and I don't take options that give
long lasting happiness.

My apologies, if Sai Bandhus feel that Iam diverting this thread.But somehow when I saw the "PS" from
Ananth garu, I felt like discussing the above here.

One more thing I want to add to this disussion is, when we do parayana it makes lots of difference
when we really "feel" or "understand" the feeling with which Master garu wrote that.
Often, I miss the "tapana" , "aardhrata" with which Master garu wrote the books.
If we can resonate with that feeling, I think the job is done.But sometimes Iam able to achieve this
resonance and most of the times not.

Jai Sai Master!

గురుబోధయొక్క సారం గ్రహించి దాని ప్రకారం మన యోచనను, పనులను సంస్కరించుకొన్నపుడే మనం నిజంగా గురువును ఆశ్రయించినట్లు. అలాగాకుంటే అది మిథ్యాభక్తే.
Whatever we practice,becomes the swabhAvA.If control is practiced persistently that will become the swabhAvA.

Saiuttampallavi

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 896
    • View Profile
Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
« Reply #28 on: March 21, 2009, 05:59:56 PM »
Jai Sai Master.

Swayam garu,

Thanks for sharing. It benefits all. Absolutely your thoughts are well inside the current objective of this thread.

Whatever all of us are saying above has been put it very nicely by you. The words used by each one of us is different but the meaning is one and the same.

Quote
One more thing I want to add to this discussion is, when we do parayana it makes lots of difference
when we really "feel" or "understand" the feeling with which Master garu wrote that.
Often, I miss the "tapana" , "aardhrata" with which Master garu wrote the books.
If we can resonate with that feeling, I think the job is done.But sometimes Iam able to achieve this
resonance and most of the times not.

We will share our thoughts soon.

Jai Sai Master.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2009, 07:07:36 PM by saiuttampallavi »
Jai Sai Master.

Asterias

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1047
    • View Profile
Re: Goal of Life - Thinking aloud
« Reply #29 on: March 21, 2009, 08:50:10 PM »
Jai Sai Master !
Quote
Actually it will be Parayana which will give me long lasting happiness than building my career.

Are you really sure about it ??? A lot of what you mean by the above statement depends on what you mean by "career" and "Parayana"

You are once again limiting Parayana to "reading" the book.

Jai Sai Master !