Author Topic: Doubt on Time and Karma  (Read 1184 times)

Ananth

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Doubt on Time and Karma
« on: January 24, 2008, 01:44:16 AM »
Jai Sai Master, Babu garu..
Jai Sai Master, Sai Bandhus..

Babu garu, I have got a couple of questions regarding Time and its effect on humans and on Mahatmas (or rather, lack of effect on Mahatmas)

Based on the Karma Sidhaanta, what we sow so we reap. Everything that ever happens in our lives, say for example, in this present life, is the direct result of the karma of this life and the previous lives.

I hope I am ok till this point Babu garu. Now, when we are doing parayana, satsangam, and such good things, our Guru will take care of our lives, I mean to say, He will see where to fit us, in the next janmas, according to what we did this life and the previous ones. Ofcourse, although we do parayana and satsangam and be generally good in life, we still do have vaasanas, which act on us from time to time or maybe constantly too. So, according to that, our Guru will see where we are fit into.

Now, comes my doubt. Is Time a factor that a Sadguru takes into consideration when it comes to taking care of His bhaktas? The reason that I am asking is, from a human's perspective, Time is linear, always going forward. With this limited approach, I can understand, that our Sadguru will see where I fit. Are there any possibilities, that a Sadguru will not consider the time factor (They being beyond time and everything else) or even a possibility that a Sadguru will consider another perspective of Time, like non-linear to take care of His bhaktas?

Non-linear in the sense, let's say for example, can He put me into a life which belonged to a time, for example, in the times of Krishna Devarayalu or a couple of centuries later? I know my questions sounds stupid, but I was thinking about past and present and future none of which are factors for Sadguru, but how He treats them for His bhaktas was what I was thinking of.

If indeed a Guru puts a person(I meant to say soul as was described by Sri Master in Leelamrutam, where bhaktas came to know how Baba put various souls into various bodies) into a body that was actually in the olden times, then ???.....

My thoughts just stop there and I get confused. Hope I did not ask a stupid question Babu garu..

Regards to all,
Jai Sai Master!

Ananth
Jai Sai Master!
Jai Swamy Sai!

SaimasterDevotee

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Re: Doubt on Time and Karma
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2008, 02:28:12 AM »
Jai gurudatta!Jai saimaster!

I heard for us time flows in a linear manner(past,present,future). we perceive like that because, we bound to certain factors.

But for a sadguru time flows in 2 directions, because they are kaalaateetulu.

My doubt is...For sadguru time flows in 2 directions, why cant he place our souls in past also??...because he is quite capable of any thing.

but logic wise it may not possible right ???


jai saimaster!
« Last Edit: January 24, 2008, 02:31:07 AM by saimaster_eb »
"The life of Saibaba is as wide and as deep as the infinite ocean;all can dive deep into it and take out precious gems of knowledge and devotion and cherish them to transform their lives." --- Sri Sai Satcharitra

Ananth

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Re: Doubt on Time and Karma
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2008, 07:34:24 AM »
Jai Sai Master, Babu garu..
Jai Sai Master, Lalitha garu..

My doubt is, once we are souls (temporarily, where we will be put into the body by Guru's grace, hopefully) then, does the linear time fashion come into play? If yes, then again, all my questions above still stand..

Regards,
Jai Sai Master!

Ananth
Jai Sai Master!
Jai Swamy Sai!

vasu

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Re: Doubt on Time and Karma
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2008, 09:42:42 AM »
Jai Sai Master!
I think this is what is meant by "Yasya Smarana Matrena Janma Sansara Bandhanat Vimuchyate" ...

Wow, this is such a great topic, I look forward to hearing from babu garu. But I think Law of Karma doesn't apply with reference to constant time (I mean lack of time. Beyond time). The past times of Lord Krishna  are happening now some where in some other Universe, the moment you think about it, you are beyond Karma jurisdication, IMO.

Jai Sai Master!
« Last Edit: January 27, 2008, 03:51:44 AM by vasu »

Asterias

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Re: Doubt on Time and Karma
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2008, 10:08:11 AM »
Jai Sai Master !

Dear Ananth garu

Frankly I dint und your question. However from what i understood, I have two things to say :

1. Acc to Bhagwad Gita, unless we fulfill all our responsibilities, we cannot come out of the loop. So all the Parayana, satsangam is there just to help us achieve mukti "after" we have finished our responsibilities. Parayana and other things help us in correctly discharging our duties so that we dont get into the loop again.

2. Mahatmas usually dont take our Karma. They do so in very rare circumstances. Generally, they interchange Karma to be undergone in this life with that in the next. My own take on this is that, they try to make situations come favourably to us ( where in we should try to maximize our sadhana), so that when unfavourable situations come, we can wade through them without much effort due to our earlier efforts.

Jai Sai Master !

Dwarakanath

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Re: Doubt on Time and Karma
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2008, 02:23:56 PM »
Jai Sai Master!

Ananthgaru,

I saw your question. Swamiji is here. So talking with him and so i am not having time to reply.

However, in short, think of this.

Karma is ACTION and REACTION. What does that tell us about time? In which level does Karma apply and in which doesnt it apply?

Jai Sai Master!!

Asterias

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Re: Doubt on Time and Karma
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2008, 03:31:00 PM »
Jai Sai Master !

Seems karma works in TIME :)

Jai Sai Master !

Swarup

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Re: Doubt on Time and Karma
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2008, 10:33:21 PM »
Honestly, i think i am not sure about the question. Is the question: say if i do good karma in my present life in 21 st century i will get some good things in next janma say in 23rd century. Now can it be that my good karma (21st century) will result me giving good janma in 16th century??? thats what the question is??
Wow, recently i saw denzel washington's de javu, the question sounds something similar along the lines:). Sorry just kidding. I do understand the seriousness of the question.

Om sai ram

Ananth

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Re: Doubt on Time and Karma
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2008, 05:01:30 AM »
Jai Sai Master, Babu garu..
Jai Sai Master, Sai Bandhus..

Looks like I confused everyone in the forum. My sincere apologies for that.

OK, I will just try one more time.

My questions is just about Time and its use by Mahatmas.

First let me describe a diagram.

There are some baloons by number.

Baloon 1: 1900 to 1999
Baloon 2: 2000 to 2099
Baloom 3: 2100 to 2199 and so and so forth.

inside Each baloon, there are lots of decorative, shiny stars, some dust, some other particles etc.

Now, Baloons are places in numerical order. A person (theoretically please do assume that baloons won't burst and that we can take out and put in the particles at will) will come and take a couple of stars, a couple of dust particles from Baloon 1 and put into Baloon 2.

And then the person will take some others from Baloon 2 and put it into Baloon 3.

Then, let us assume that person is Baba doing the exact same thing with humans' souls.

Now, with reference from Sai Leelamrutam: Maru roju bhaktulaki telisedi, Baba ae ae bhaktula atmalani ekkada pampistunnaru ani. This means, Baba literally takes care of the soul who follows the prescription of Baba.

This is where my question is (please please don't say I confused all of you again, I will embarrassed!!).

Baba is beyond the time. He knows past present and future, there is no doubt about that. By this pretext, will Baba put a soul (let's say His bhakta has breathed his last) into another body.

Now, NOW....where is that body (the future or past?? body into which this soul will be put) present? This question is purely according to the Time frame as per the human. IS this body in the future? in reference to the dead body whose soul will be put into? OR is the body in the present? somewhere in another place, city, country, or even planet??? or is the body in the past?

Please do remember, the past, present and future are the terms in reference to us humans. But the use of those terms by a sadguru is what got into this crazy head. Please forgive me.

Babu garu, I am stil thinking about what you asked me to think. I am still in a "NOT"

Regards to all,

Jai Sai Master!

Ananth

PS: My question was never about Karma. But my question has a part of it which belonged to Karma by which our soul is put into a particular body as is deemed good by our Sadguru.
Jai Sai Master!
Jai Swamy Sai!

Asterias

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Re: Doubt on Time and Karma
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2008, 03:09:23 PM »
Jai Sai Master !

This "time", I seem to understand your question ! However I dont have any answers for it.

I somehow feel that the answer to this question wd make us continue our discussion on TIME (Einstien's Theory Thread) :)

Jai Sai Master !

Dwarakanath

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Re: Doubt on Time and Karma
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2008, 10:19:55 PM »
Jai Sai Master!

Baba is beyond time. But do you assume Baba SEPERATE and STANDING besides this table on which the scenes of the universe unfold? All that, taken together is Baba. Time is Baba. Space is Baba. Any thing beyond is Baba. The observer is Baba and the observer is Baba.

The idea that some one picking out stuff from one place to the next (time wise) comes more because of thinking about Baba as SEPERATE from all that.

Infact, Karma occurs only in linear time. The only thing contrary is that my linear time might not be linear to you in the same order.

However, your question is, if i leave this body, say, my soul has to be put some where by Baba. Now where could it be? Is there a chance for it to be in the past??

If so, the question to be asked is, is your soul going there AFTER you left this body?? Then what does that mean? Who experiences time? Body or soul?  If so whose linear time is it that I experience? The body's? or the mind's ?
Not only that, there is a combined linear time of several organisms based on the interrelations of their co-existence. Each level of consciousness, from the most rudimentary consciousness of inanimate objects to cell to body to society to planets and so on, has its own level of linearity which coincides with ours. My linear time might be a bit subjective to me, but in general, flows with the bigger and smaller eddies of conscious experience of all the other levels of existence. My cells, for example, have their subjective linear times, but in general, their times flow along with mine because they are parts of my body, and all of them put together is my body.

Hence, if we see time as a flow, in which we are but minor ripples of experience, then in our linear time, our NEXT Janma is always in OUR future, however, it might be in the cosmic past. Putting this aside, Baba is so great that He can give us two bodies and two different lives at the same time! Or He can give us births in our cosmic pasts. However, i have to say that i do not know of one example where it happened. Traditionally, all things karma related are shown as based on the sequential flow of events, which implies, most of the times, unidirectional flow of time. But that doesnot mean that philosophically its impossible. there are instances of people travelling to the past and future in our puranas and in the lives of Mahatmas.

But in general, our future lives are also in the cosmic future. only in rare occassions and under special blessings, one might say, can they be in the cosmic past while still being in our future.

Jai Sai Master!!