Author Topic: Pillala pempakam - Upbringing the next generation  (Read 19858 times)

Dwarakanath

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Pillala pempakam - Upbringing the next generation
« on: November 06, 2009, 09:32:39 PM »
Jai Sai Master!

here is the new thread. lets get it rolling. And may Master bless us all with better understanding through this thread. May He speak through us.

I will start it tonight after rechecking some references.

Jai Sai Master!!

svelagal

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Re: Pillala pempakam - Upbringing the next generation
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2009, 10:28:29 PM »
OM SRI SAIRAM !

Dwarakanath garu,

Thanks for starting a new thread. Its good to see you back on action with such a useful topic.
if possible can you please throw some light on how to lead a successful marriage life as well.
I hope there will be marriages, even though it might be called as any thing else (licence or contract).

A successful married couple are the necessity for upbringing the children for the next generation.

can you please focus your view on this thing. It will be helpful for a bachelor like me and few who got married and leading a good life.

Thanks,
Sateesh.

OM SRI SAIRAM !



!!!Sarve janaa Sukinoo bhavantu!!!!
!!!Samasta sanmagalani bhavantu!!!

rajashri

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Re: Pillala pempakam - Upbringing the next generation
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2009, 10:50:50 PM »
jai sai master!!
jai junior sai master!
Thank you Babugaru. for starting the thread.


I for one am against the mother working unless it is absolutely necessary for her to work. Care to discuss from scratch anyone?? And I dont think motherhood is over glorified in this thread. I see lot of excuses for woman-freedom and exceptions to performance of motherhood in this thread being used as 'logic'.


I want to know about the justifications and exceptions of woman working even though there is no dire need to work for the family.
When i hear about these exceptions and logic i also get carried away and feel may be i am not with the flow of the world.And as Baba said "pani cheyyi ,devuni namam ucharinchu... "ante ikkada pani ante kevalam inti pani ye kakunda eppudu busy gaa undataniki ,degrees chaduvukunnanduku medhassuni, chaduvuni upayoginchataniki udyogam chesi teeralannadi another point.Anduke naa first post lo i asked from both the perspectives-spiritual and material well being.
jai sai master!!
rajasri

sai_prince

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Re: Pillala pempakam - Upbringing the next generation
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2009, 11:37:17 PM »



mmmmmm...... Honestly... after reading that post completely....... I dont think I agree with the ideas in that post/thread.... I dont think most of the marriages are licensed prostitutions....(atleast thst what I understood from the post)
[/quote]

Jai Sai Master!

Good that you disagree. Understanding comes when both of us agree on the 'definition' and 'purpose' of marriage. I think thats where the problem is. And from what  I see, I do see that most marriages are non-marriages, if not out right 'licensed prostitutions'.

Jai Sai Master!!
[/quote]

Looking forward for a nice discussion/debate to improve my understanding on the 'definition' and 'purpose' of marriage.

Dwarakanath

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Re: Pillala pempakam - Upbringing the next generation
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2009, 11:45:23 PM »
Jai Sai Master!

Satishgaru,

definitely that point will be touched.

Rajasrigaru,

Your question regarding 'using education' and its relation to 'job' will be covered, but lets get the discussion to a point where that can be easily discussed and understood. hope you can wait.


Now.

First few things we need to remember through out this discussion.

1. The Child is an individual, just like an adult.
2. Humans, unlike other animals (most of them), have what Master E.K. calls 'Continuity of thought'. That is, we can continue the same idea and improve upon it day after day, year after year and generation after generation, and also, spread that knowledge among all the individuals.
3. ideas regarding whats best for a couple, for an individual, for the society and for future generations depends upon the value sets of the individual who has those ideas. For someone who is 'fixed' upon the idea of making one's kid an IIT graduate, the whole process of upbringing looks very different to that of another who has the idea of making one's kid a sports person. So, its key to have an understanding of each other's value sets before we discuss whats best. What I mean by 'value set' is the whole set of opinions, ideas, thoughts, beliefs and attitudes. For each individual, they are shaped both by the internal condition of that individual and the external conditions that individual is subject to. However, one needs a standard, a goal so to say, to achieve or to look up to (and correspondingly look down upon another), in order for betterment or worsening to occur. For this, one needs to really see what one's standard is. Mine is what is told by Mahatmas, Master in particular, and other greats such as Gandhiji and Subhash Bose and Ravindranath Tagore.
4. Intellect, rational, knowledge, etc. form one portion of the 'mind set' (which is a super set of 'value set', incorporating behavior patterns, tendencies, etc.) while emotions and drives form another. Ignoring one aspect and looking lopsidedly at another causes confusion, especially when we start discussing about how to 'build' the mind set of the parent and the child.
5. A complete individual is one whose different facets of life such as health (both physical and mental), education, knowledge, social outlook, values, etc. are brought to the maximum possible correctness (efficiency and effectiveness, to use 'MBA' words :) ).
6. The goal of marriage is not just progeny.
7. Progeny, when looked at as an individual, gives only part of the theme. When looked at as 'children' and as 'generation', it becomes more complete. When looked at the scale of 'humanity', it becomes complete.
8. The goal of life is contentment (satisfaction in its most appropriate sense) and peace for the individual and for the society. All other aspects of life are 'tools' to achieve this goal.
9. Last but not least, Mahatmas words are final. We either can live by them or not, like them or not, accept them or not, but that doesnt mean that our intellect and 'opinions' are more sound and complete than theirs. That doesnt mean that we should blindly accept them. It only means that we should keep seeking better understanding in order to comprehend them, rather than blindly and arrogantly question them. The more we are in disagreement with them, the farther our understanding is from its fulfillment. The teachings and sayings of Mahatmas provide the direction and scale for us to think.

Jai Sai Master!!

Priya

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Re: Pillala pempakam - Upbringing the next generation
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2009, 01:08:08 AM »
Jai sai Master

Quote
I for one am against the mother working unless it is absolutely necessary for her to work. Care to discuss from scratch anyone?? And I dont think motherhood is over glorified in this thread. I see lot of excuses for woman-freedom and exceptions to performance of motherhood in this thread being used as 'logic'.

ఈ discussionలో తెలియకుండా motherhoodని glorify చేసామేమో.నా ఉద్దేశమైతే దానిని అడ్డుపెట్టుకుని మాట్లాడాలని కాదు.అసల పిల్లలే వద్దు అనుకుంటున్నారు అనటం వల్ల అలా చెయ్యవలసి వచ్చింది.                

Quote
Baba said "pani cheyyi ,devuni namam ucharinchu... "ante ikkada pani ante kevalam inti pani ye kakunda eppudu busy gaa undataniki ,degrees chaduvukunnanduku medhassuni, chaduvuni upayoginchataniki udyogam chesi teeralannadi another point.

Yes,స్త్రీ చదువుకోవాలి మేధస్సును పెంచుకోవాలి.కానీ ఉద్యోగం చేసి తీరాలి అన్న point ఎంతవరకు correct? నాకు కొన్ని doubtsఉన్నాయి.
 
1.దానికి ఉద్యోగమే చేసి తీరాలా?Spiritualగా ఎదగకూడదా?

2.ఉదాహరణకు నా ఇంట్లో చిన్నపిల్లలు ఉన్నారు వాళ్ళ care గురించి job చెయ్యటం లేదు. ఇప్పుడు నన్ను నీకు ఏదికావాలి అని అడిగితే నేను నా ఉద్యోగం కన్నా నా పిల్లల care నాకు ముఖ్యం అంటాను.Right or wrong?
(అర్ధిక పరిస్థితుల గురించి మాట్లాడం లేదు)
 
3.నా ఇంట్లో పెద్దవయస్సులో ఉన్న నా అత్త మామలు ఉన్నారు. వాళ్ళకు care అవసరం నేను  ఉద్యోగం చెయ్యకుండా వాళ్ళ సంరక్షన నాకు అవసరం అనుకున్నాను.దానికి నా భర్త job నేను ఇంట్లో ఉంటున్నాను. ఈ పరిస్థితులలో job చేసి తీరాలి అన్న point కుదరదు అవసరం లేదు.

4. నా మేధస్సు పెంచుకోడానికి కాక విలాసమైన జీవితం కోసమో సరదాకో,పురుష ద్వేషంతోనో job చెయ్యవలసిన అవసరం లేదు. ఇక్కడ ఏ ఉద్దేశంతో చెయ్యాలనుకుంటున్నామనేది point.

ఇక్కడ ఎక్కడా ఆర్ధికపరిస్థితి గురించి మాట్లాట్టం లేదు.

ఉద్యోగం చెయ్యడం great అని చదువుకుని ఇంట్లో ఉండవలసి వస్తే అది ఏదో తప్పు అని అనుకోవడం పొరపాటు అని నా భావం. ఒకవేళ ఇద్దరులో ఒకరే చెయ్యాలనుకుంటే అది పురుషులకు ఇవ్వడంలో తప్పులేదు.
దానిని స్త్రీ తక్కువగా అనుకో వలసిన అవసరం లేదు.
 
(నిజానికి గతంలో నేను ఆడవారివైపు ఎక్కువగా మాట్లాడే దాన్నినా తప్పు తెలుసుకుని అన్ని కోణాలలోను,practical possibility అన్నీ ఆలోచించి మాట్లాడుతున్నాను)అసల సమస్యలు ఎక్కువ తక్కువలు అనుకోవటం వలనే వస్తున్నాయి.

నేను ఆడవారు వంటింటికే పరిమితం అని అనటం లేదు.పరిస్థితుల బట్టి మార్చుకోవడం చిన్నతనం కాదు అని నా ఉద్దేశం.పురుషుల పాత్ర లేదు అనటం లేదు.అన్ని పరిస్థితులు అనుకులంగా(In-lawsకి మరీ పెద్దవయస్సు కాకుండా,కొంచం పెద్ద పిల్లలు ఉన్నవారు) ఇలాంటప్పుడు చక్రీ గారు మాట్లాడిన points సరిపోతాయి.  

బాబు గారు నా వల్ల discussion అంతా మారిపొతోందేమో.నాకు కొంచం health బాగోలేదు. ఈ discussionలో ఎంత participate చెయ్యగలనో తెలియదు. అందుకే నా అభిప్రాయాలు అన్నీ చెప్పేసాను.

 
Jai Sai Master    
« Last Edit: November 07, 2009, 11:49:53 PM by Priya »

swarup

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Re: Pillala pempakam - Upbringing the next generation
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2009, 01:45:51 AM »
Dear sai bandhus,
my pranams to all.

Dear Dwarakanath garu,

pranams to you again, been a long time.... :-)

may be its a bit too early for me.... but let me start off, from your post......

As a slow learner, which I am, Let us go a little bit slow.......

I do understand your points 1 through 5 and 9. But i think I am not clear on 6 to 8.


6. The goal of marriage is not just progeny.
7. Progeny, when looked at as an individual, gives only part of the theme. When looked at as 'children' and as 'generation', it becomes more complete. When looked at the scale of 'humanity', it becomes complete.
8. The goal of life is contentment (satisfaction in its most appropriate sense) and peace for the individual and for the society. All other aspects of life are 'tools' to achieve this goal.


So, the goal of marriage is to prepare the next generation?? Marriage is a tool to get contention in all aspects of life..... Did i understand it right? No wonder why sachin tendulkar is going great guns, because he was married at 22 yrs and got contention.... (just kidding) What is that contention we are looking at??

Can you please explain more on what is and what constitutes a correct marriage in your opinion, and what is the goal of marriage (if there is any).....


I hope there will be marriages, even though it might be called as any thing else (licence or contract).



Not sure of the driving license part of the marriage,,,, been a long time we discussed on that thread, but let us revisit and give a probation to that license, and get more.......


ఈ discussionలో తెలియకుండా motherhoodని glorify చేసామేమో.నా ఉద్దేశమైతే దానిని అడ్డుపెట్టుకుని మాట్లాడాలని కాదు.అసల పిల్లలే వద్దు అనుకుంటున్నారు అనటం వల్ల అలా చెయ్యవలసి వచ్చింది.                

I think nothing wrong in glorifying motherhood, as it rightfully deserves..... What constitutes motherhood, is the question?? As it is said in one movie (Bruce almighty I think, not exact words) Making fire on water is a cheap trick and not godly,,,,, A single mother having two jobs to support her kids and still manages time to attend her son's football match, to make him happy is a miracle and par godly.... I think The base minimum could be to glorify  it.......

We will latter come to the topic of parenting....

Om sai ram
« Last Edit: November 07, 2009, 02:34:12 AM by swarup »
Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. ---- Gautama Buddha

chakri

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Re: Pillala pempakam - Upbringing the next generation
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2009, 01:52:05 AM »
Jai Sai Master,

Dwarakanath garu excellent post....I couldn't agree more with your below quote. I became a fan of this quote.

Quote
Mahatmas words are final. We either can live by them or not, like them or not, accept them or not, but that doesn't mean that our intellect and 'opinions' are more sound and complete than theirs. That doesn't mean that we should blindly accept them. It only means that we should keep seeking better understanding in order to comprehend them, rather than blindly and arrogantly question them. The more we are in disagreement with them, the farther our understanding is from its fulfillment. The teachings and sayings of Mahatmas provide the direction and scale for us to think.

Coming to our point of discussion......I feel there is nothing wrong with women working. In the initial years after kid is born I agree that kid needs to be with mother and so mom can take a break during that time. What is wrong with women working before conceiving kids and once after kids go to school?

How can we restrict women to just be stay at home moms and not let them do what they want to when we pray to them as adi shakti - chaitanyam based on which this whole universe exists. I think the gap we see here is awareness of the goals of life and how the things we do in different aspects of life help achieve our goal. This understanding needs to be there for both men and women. If men do not understand this and tell women what to do it will be dictatorship. If everyone is taught from childhood that the goal in life is divinity and to how gruhasta ashramam helps acheive it then only contenment can come in life. Everyone thinks that materialistic life and spiritual life are different. I thought similarly until I read master books.

If women want to work we should allow them to work but we should let them and men know about the goal of life. Without knowing the goals it will just be a rat race. As sai baba said "Anduku vachinatu pidakalu arukodanika". In the current environment this kind of awareness is not passed from parents to kids.

Jai Sai Master
Life is a drama in which the one consciousness of the Lord assumes many forms and plays all the parts for its own pleasure .If we realise that,we have lived life,May He in you lead you to Himself.  - E.Bharadwaja (Jai Sai Master)

Dwarakanath

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Re: Pillala pempakam - Upbringing the next generation
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2009, 08:23:31 AM »
Jai Sai Master!


Quote
Coming to our point of discussion......I feel there is nothing wrong with women working. In the initial years after kid is born I agree that kid needs to be with mother and so mom can take a break during that time. What is wrong with women working before conceiving kids and once after kids go to school?

Chakri garu, Nothing wrong with WOMAN doing a job. Its actually super awesome. I really think we need good women as the heads of some of the social institutions (industries, politics, etc.) at this juncture in human history. Thats a different discussion alltogether why i think so. However, I am against a MOTHER working unless it is absolutely necessary for her to do so. We will come to that part of discussion.

Priyagaru,
What you said is quite right. There is no compulsion on anyone to do a job, unless it is necessary for that person (male or female) to do a job. However, we will come to your points in due course. May Baba bless you with good health. Get well soon!


SWARUPGAARUUU!!!
Jai Sai Master!
You might not believe it,  but I missed you! Great to see you back online!

Quote
Quote from: Dwarakanath on Today at 11:15:23 AM
Quote
6. The goal of marriage is not just progeny.
7. Progeny, when looked at as an individual, gives only part of the theme. When looked at as 'children' and as 'generation', it becomes more complete. When looked at the scale of 'humanity', it becomes complete.
8. The goal of life is contentment (satisfaction in its most appropriate sense) and peace for the individual and for the society. All other aspects of life are 'tools' to achieve this goal.


So, the goal of marriage is to prepare the next generation?? Marriage is a tool to get contention in all aspects of life..... Did i understand it right? No wonder why sachin tendulkar is going great guns, because he was married at 22 yrs and got contention.... (just kidding) What is that contention we are looking at??

Can you please explain more on what is and what constitutes a correct marriage in your opinion, and what is the goal of marriage (if there is any).....

Not completely. The goal of marriage is not JUST progeny. Meaning, its not just for kids that one should marry. There are many more other reasons for marrying (or not marrying). Preparing the next generation is part of that goal. Its part of that responsiblity.

By the way, I was talking about "contentment" and not "contention". "Trupti" is what I mean.
I will come to the point of what constitutes a correct marriage in my opinion, and the goal of marriage in a few posts.  Because, for us to understand the role of marriage in the life of an individual, and in society and the world at large, we first need to understand the 'value set' of the individual(s) first.

I will write that in a few minutes.

Jai Sai Master!!

Asterias

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Re: Pillala pempakam - Upbringing the next generation
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2009, 08:33:13 AM »
Jai Sai Master !

Dear Saibandhus, we should also be concerned about the fact that this forum is read by people who might not be able to understand Telugu. For the benefit of all, please stick to English only. I accept that sometimes we feel we can better communicated in our own language. However it causes people not understanding Telugu to lose the flow of the discussion.

Please stick to English only.

Jai Sai Master !

Asterias

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Re: Pillala pempakam - Upbringing the next generation
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2009, 09:01:07 AM »
Jai Sai Master !

I understand that. However, in that case, some one should volunteer to translate Telugu into English, so that other forum members can also read the thread fully. Else not everybody will join the thread fully. Secondly, many forum members including me keep checking back at previous posts, so these discussions are for eternity, not just for now.

The intention is not to disrupt the thread, its just to make the thread more widely read and much more widely discussed. Please understand the spirit :)

Jai Sai Master !

Dwarakanath

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Re: Pillala pempakam - Upbringing the next generation
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2009, 09:54:34 AM »
Jai Sai Master!

As Master says, "To blossom every moment into a better manifestation of perfection is the only business of life". This statement is a good start for our discussion as it provides two important points.
1. Generally, the life of most people (all non-mahatmas) is not THE BEST manifestation of perfection. That is, there is scope for improvement from the not-so-perfect situation.
2. That perfection indeed is the goal of life. Perfection, as we can see from other Master's works, is the supreme spirit.  Being spiritual and improving every moment in that endeavor is the drive of life.

Now, what constitutes such a life?

As we have seen earlier in many discussions, such a life will be spiritual, whether we name it as such or not. Fulfilling one's responsibilities (Dharma) in all aspects of life is what it is. Striving towards equiping ourselves for it, and doing it, constitutes Sadhana.

Individual responsibility as well as social responsibility are part of that.  Our ancient traditions and customs were designed to provide such a life style, although, as time passed, their meaning got lost to the populace and most of them remain as mere rituals and dogmas.

Such a life includes, as we have said, honing of the various aspects of being 'human'. Intellect, wisdom, courage, patience, Khsama, Clarity, on the mental side, physical well being, usefulness, stamina, etc. on the physical side, relationships, responsibilities, social awareness, trying to be useful to others and the society, etc. on the social side. Along with these, there is also the side of in-being, contemplation, transcendence, meditation, insight, strength of will and betterment of one's self-image and world-image, working our way out of our basic insecurities, harmonizing our basic tendencies so that they support the other three, etc.

This is given in the following classification as "Karma" (karma as in action in accordance with Dharma):
1. Adhibhoutikam - relating to physical and personal, as well as everything mundane, that is social responsiblities, roles, etc.
2. Adhidaivikam - relating to the world at large, and the forces and consciousnesses that run this world in accordance with the Supreme spirit
3. Adhyatmikam - in-being, God, Sadhana side of things.

The idea is that the perfect human would be perfect in all actions (and responses) in all the above three aspects of one's life. That is, one has to be good to himself and the society and the world, one has to be perfect in matters of 'forces of the universe' (Devas) (that is towards the mechanisms that provide for the running of creation such as causality, fate, etc. to water cycles and utilization of natural resources, respecting nature of our planet, its life forms, and also the nature of other people as well, etc.) and also to be perfect in aspects of meditation, self-awareness, Sadhana, etc.

Spirituality is the path to lasting peace and contentment (trupti and shanti) that everyone is seeking so desperately for. And so, a life in spirituality is what is desired. And such a life will include all the aspects indicated by the above classification. In such a life-style, everything that a person does, from utilizing one's time and resources properly, to marriage, to social responsiblities to sadhana, everything is geared towards achieving the above and in turn achieving lasting trupti and shanti. Marriage, along with other institutions, is designed to provide for such a life-style. And progeny, taking care of the next generation, etc. are all parts of that.

For a person who is trying to 'blossom every moment into a better manifestation of perfection', a lifestyle that utilizes and improves upon the potential of every human being towards the achievement of the above conditions is the goal. That is, such a person must utilize his natural strengths, remove his natural weaknesses and harmonize his drives and energies towards better causes, while at the same time trying to be useful to himself and the society at large  in every department possible.

Jai Sai Master!!

swarup

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Re: Pillala pempakam - Upbringing the next generation
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2009, 06:03:07 PM »

Such a life includes, as we have said, honing of the various aspects of being 'human'. Intellect, wisdom, courage, patience, Khsama, Clarity, on the mental side, physical well being, usefulness, stamina, etc. on the physical side, relationships, responsibilities, social awareness, trying to be useful to others and the society, etc. on the social side. Along with these, there is also the side of in-being, contemplation, transcendence, meditation, insight, strength of will and betterment of one's self-image and world-image, working our way out of our basic insecurities, harmonizing our basic tendencies so that they support the other three, etc.


I think there are some what similar theories wherein, risk/benefit index when it is low, for individual altruistic human tendencies mentioned above were positively selected in the evolution of mankind in a self-sustaining manner, but thats a different discussion....
As most of us will, I agree to all of it,  ....


Spirituality is the path to lasting peace and contentment (trupti and shanti) that everyone is seeking so desperately for. And so, a life in spirituality is what is desired.


Hmmm..... There are some worldly things like, karmas, dharmas (whatever)...  Spirituality is the only path, I think is subject to arguement, but for the sake of it, let us say I agree that part too.....

In general All of your post does make perfect sense...And value sets (of what you have written) in general all of us (i think but for real hardcore criminals) do agree on it and most of them definitely aspire for (atleast in dreams), regardless of achieving it or not, ....  But the key is how we fine tune every day of our life (marriage, parenting, being one of those, and topic of current discussion) towards achieving those, as none of us can be perfect overnight......  
 
But on a softer and franker side, may be you will agree (and may be everyone one) on our pertinent topic of discussion, when I first read a philosophical post like this, my first intention is more like "this is too superficial and too philosophical an aspect to what I want.....  :) ??? :o........ what i want is finer details, and thats where most of the questions come from .... Of course I am sure you are setting up a stage for the actual topic of discussion,,,,,,, Looking forward for your next post......

Om sai ram
« Last Edit: November 08, 2009, 08:32:10 AM by swarup »
Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. ---- Gautama Buddha

Dwarakanath

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Re: Pillala pempakam - Upbringing the next generation
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2009, 01:28:12 PM »
Jai Sai Master!

Swarupgaru,

Yes, I am talking about phylosophy first because its going to help in mutual understanding of further statements made without sentence by sentence clarification later on.



Now, when the goal is to lead a life as mentioned above, and when one observes oneself as not being up to the mark, then one has to see and understand the reasons for not being able to live like that. And one has to try and strive to adjust and train oneself to be so. And one of the most common reasons that we have is that 'we dont understand' or 'we have not been trained in that way earlier'.

Its a well known fact that we learn and follow, to a large extent, things that we are witnesses of, since childhood. The culture, the value set, essentially, is based on the situations we  face, based on the things we are 'used to', and the way our thinking has developed over the years since childhood. And we can see the disastrous effects of lack of proper upbringing that is impinging our our society. Everything from religious fanatism to the common man's plight of not understanding the goal, seem to be generated mainly because of the above mentioned problem of not getting trained properly since childhood.

True that some studies in science have shown (in nature vs. nurture debate) that nature plays major part than nurture (when identical twins, seperated at birth grew up in different cultures and countries, without any connection between them through out life, they still seem to  develop identical habbits and patterns and views of life), we still have nurture in our control. Even if we say its nature 70 - nurture 30 percent influence, 30 percent itself is quite substantial.

Also, not always that people follow what they are taught. They grow out of habbits, change patterns, develop new views on life, etc. as they grow. This gives a chance that people can become better, and also a chance that people become worse. But without strong foundations, the likelihood of people becoming worse are more. This in turn makes the whole society go up and down in terms of its culture and values.

Nature provides a great boon in 'change of generation' to rectify this and start afresh, as much as possible. It provides a way to replace all the parts of the society with new and fresh ones through the mechanisms of death and birth. And so, when we look at this, we can clearly see the potential that is there in 'new generations' to make better citizen and in turn, better society.

Hence, it is imperative to focus on proper upbringing of the next generation. Such upbringing must, therefore, be in such a way that spirituality blossoms in the children.


Master writes about it here in Matam enduku :
http://www.divyajanani.org/saibharadwaja/books/ReadBook.asp?PNo=ME0056 uptill here
http://www.divyajanani.org/saibharadwaja/books/ReadBook.asp?PNo=ME0062

And in Prabothamritam here  :
http://www.divyajanani.org/saibharadwaja/books/prabodhamrutham/P21_30.html
to end of chapter.


Jai Sai Master!!
« Last Edit: November 09, 2009, 01:35:22 PM by Dwarakanath »

SaiSiva.Gorthi

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Re: Pillala pempakam - Upbringing the next generation
« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2009, 06:25:46 AM »
Jai Sai Master!

Hearty pranams to The Sai Master in all of you.
 
These discussions and Babugari's replies are reminding me of the Master's words in the Foreword of Sri Chivatam Amma charitra and in chapter-24 of Dhyana Yoga Sarvaswam.

For the questions pertaining to marriage, responsibilities of a house holder (as a Mother/Father) etc.., and the link between this thread and the posts on the other thread (Tatwa jnaanam) as Babu garu mentioned, Masters (Sadgurus) words show right direction to us.

In page 86 of Dhyana Yoga Sarvaswam Master mentioned the following things: (Please read the entire chapter-24 at http://www.divyajanani.org/saibharadwaja/books/dhyanayogasarvaswamu/Chapter24.html)

విషయ భోగలాలసనుంచీ మనస్సును విడదీయటం, చైతన్య ద్రవణం కావించటం బ్రహ్మచర్య, కన్యాత్వాల లక్ష్యం. ఘనీభావం చెయ్యటం 'గృహస్త, సన్యాస' ఆశ్రమాల ఆదర్శం. కేవలం సంఘాన్ని ఉద్ధరించే సామర్ధ్యం కల సంతానాన్ని పొంది, వారికి సాధ్యమైన జ్ఞానసంపదను నిలపటానికి మాత్రమే వివాహం. కామాన్ని అనుభవించటానికి కాదు. ....  .....  ....  .........  .... ప్రకృతి బీజమాత్రంగా తనకు ఇచ్చిన వాటిని బడికివెళ్లి సక్రమంగా వృద్ధి చేసుకొని, సంఘంలో కట్టుబాటుగా బ్రతికి, నియమాలతో, సాధనతో చైతన్య ఘనత పొందితే సార్ధకం.అప్పుడు గృహస్థుడైనా చెడడు; జాతి వృద్ధి పొందుతుంది. సాధన కొంచెం మిగిలి అది పూర్తి చేసుకొని పరిపూర్ణుడయ్యేవాడు అటువంటి గర్భవాసాన పుడతాడు. అందుకే వివాహం.

ఇట్లాకాక యింద్రియ సుఖాన్ననుభవించటం - ఏ  యింద్రియాన్నయినా సరే అనుభవించటం తప్పుదారికే తీస్తుంది. ....  ....  ......  ..... అట్లానే జాతి వృద్ధికి ఉన్నది (సంఖ్యలో కాదు, లక్షణంలో) కామం. దాన్ని ఆనందానుభవంగా చేసుకుంటే పాపమవుతుంది. ఇతర నవీన శాస్త్రాలు దీనినెందుకు గుర్తించవు? అంటే-...... ....  ... ...  

(To understand the meaning of the words like chaitanya dravaNaM,  chaitanya ghanata, badi etc. we need to study this chapter from the beginning. I should not have posted bits like this, as the necessary terms are defined by Master before, but could not resist myself from pointing to this wonderful chapter)


In the foreword of the book on Sri Chivatam Amma, Master mentioned that:
నేను దర్శించిన మహాత్ములు- అవధూత శ్రీ చివటం అమ్మ,  పేజీ: V, VI:

ప్రతి జీవికీ జన్మత: వుండే శారీరక, మానసిక సామర్ధ్యాలు సంపూర్ణంగా వికసించడము, అట్టి వికాసం పొందిన సంతతిని జాతియొక్క పురోగమనం కోసం అర్పించడమే ప్రకృతి యొక్క లక్ష్యం. ఈ సత్యాన్ని గుర్తించి కృషి చేయకుంటే వ్యక్తి, సమాజము గూడా తారుమారవుతాయి. విశేషమైన సహజ ప్రతిభ వలన అట్టి వికాసం చెందిన మహనీయుల నుండి అట్టి అవగాహన, క్రమ శిక్షణా ప్రతివారూ పొందవలసినదేనని అన్ని మతాలూ చెబుతాయి. దీనినే ధర్మమని హిందూ మతం, శీలమని బౌద్ధ-జైన మతాలు, మార్గము (.....) అని క్రైస్తవము మరియు తావో మతాలు, 'షరియత్' అని ఇస్లాము వ్యవహరించాయి.
 
ఇట్టి క్రమశిక్షణనిచ్చే జీవిత విధానమే మహర్షులేర్పరిచిన బ్రహ్మచర్యము మొ||న నాలుగు ఆశ్రమాలు. అపుడు ఐహికము, పారమార్దికము పరస్పర విరుద్ధాలవవు. పరమార్ధానికి సాధనంగా ఐహిక జీవితాన్ని, జాతి యొక్క ఐహిక జీవితాన్ని ఉత్తమంగా తీర్చి దిద్దగల పధకంగా ఆధ్యాత్మిక జీవితమూ నిలుస్తాయి.

After reading the sentence written by master 'ప్రతి జీవికీ జన్మత: వుండే శారీరక, మానసిక సామర్ధ్యాలు సంపూర్ణంగా వికసించడము, అట్టి వికాసం పొందిన సంతతిని జాతియొక్క పురోగమనం కోసం అర్పించడమే ప్రకృతి యొక్క లక్ష్యం. ఈ సత్యాన్ని గుర్తించి కృషి చేయకుంటే వ్యక్తి, సమాజము గూడా తారుమారవుతాయి.', we may sometimes think that, that is what in fact we are (everyone is) trying in our own way and why do we need Spirituality and Master?

Many times though we get to know, by different means, what one has to follow ideally, its implementation seems to be almost beyond our reach. For this reason Master emphasizes repeatedly the importance of resorting to Sadguru and surrendering our self to Him (meaning of seranaagati can be found from Masters words in Pages 46,47 of Dhyana Yoga Sarvaswam at http://www.divyajanani.org/saibharadwaja/books/dhyanayogasarvaswamu/Chapter14.html and in Prabhodaamritam in Sadguru Vaakyopadesam http://www.divyajanani.org/saibharadwaja/books/prabodhamrutham/P40_50.html).

In any matter, irrespective of our personal opinions, as babu garu mentioned, it is only Mahatmas words should be the reference or bench marks. As they alone can lead us on to the path of attaining everlasting happiness. Not even the opinions of great intellectuals; as many Scientists whose work has produced great impact all over the world, still may have attitudes that are unethical. I mean attitude that neither brings peace and happiness to them (personally) nor to those who are around them. i.e., they still suffer from Raaga, Dweshas as equally as a common man. Only Saints teachings can help us in stepping out of this zone. For me Masters words seem to bring so much solace and give strength and happiness even when the great Scientists (with whom I was working or interacting) fail to provide right perspective. What I intend to express is that, in any matter if we depend just on our limited intellectual reasoning biased with our likes and dislikes, we may end up in choosing wrong path (path that takes us away from the life that gives true happiness). The live examples are the cases of many Scientists (no doubt they are great intellectuals; my intention here is not at all to criticize them, only to highlight the importance of giving utmost consideration to the teachings of Saints even though our personal opinions, likes and dislikes, differ from them. In such cases, we need to improve our understanding till we get the right perspective or pray to Master to equip us with proper perspective on those issues).      

A stanza from Baba's Kaakada aarati (Morning haarati) emphasizes the same:

Asa bahut shaahanaa pari na jyaa Guroochi kripa
Na tatswahit tyaa kalae karitase rikamya gapaa
jari Gurupada dhari sudhrid bhaktineh to manaa
Samartha Guru Sainath puravee manovaasanaa

Meaning:
However wise a person is if he does not have the Guru's blessings he cannot understand what is good for his welfare and can only indulge in mere prattle. Firmly hold the Guru's feet with one-pointed devotion. May the Samatrh (Powerful) Guru Sainath fulfil our desires.

మానస భజరే గురుచరణం, దుస్తర భవసాగర తరణం
maanasa bhajarae gurucharaNaM, dustara bhavasaagara taraNaM

I pray Master to ignite the fire (the desire of following His teachings) in our hearts and bow to His lotus feet earnestly requesting Him to keep that desire consistently till we change our conduct in accordance with His teachings.

Jai Sai Master!

« Last Edit: November 11, 2009, 01:38:00 AM by SaiSiva.Gorthi »